Teach me to make this fold !!!!

[Thomsen]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Thomsen is BB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Thomsen checks.

Flop: (4 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Thomsen bets, UTG raises, Button folds, SB folds, Thomsen 3-bets, UTG caps, Thomsen calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Thomsen bets, UTG raises, Thomsen calls. DAMMIT notes says that he is solid, and pushes his draws what am i doing ???

River: (10 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Thomsen checks, UTG bets,Ok now i KNOW I am beat but Thomsen calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

[bisonbison]

Would he never play this way with a set or two pair?

I would play it the same way. If I didn't think he was solid I would 3-bet the turn.

[Saborion]

I doubt I would make a fold like that unless I'm VERY convinced he has me beat. Seriously. It'll cost you 2 more bets to go to the river. There's 9 in the pot after his turn raise. You really doubt you'll win often enough to make it a profitable call?

Unless I'm mistaken, you need to win one time of six to break even in this spot. Is that right? 2 bets to win 10?

[LetsRock]

Well I guess you gotta trust your reads, but my read would have to be 100% accurate to not see his cards.

[blackaces13]

You can't make that fold. I'm calling down everytime here as well. If he was willing to cap the flop on a draw then he's aggro enough to play a set or 2 pair just like that.

[Keats13]

I don't think I can fold here.

Would UTG limp with ATo? What about A8o? Probably not, since you describe him as "solid." But maybe 88. Or 98s/87s, depending on the table. And somone who "pushes his draws" would probably play the flop and turn as described with an 8 in hand.

Also, just because someone pushes his draws doesn't mean he doesn't push his sets, too.

Anyway, I think I play it the same as you from the turn raise on. You could be ahead. If you are behind a made flush, you have redraws (albeit only 2) on the river.

On the river, I still call, as I think there's at least a 9% chance he has 88 or worse.

[Saborion]

That makes sense. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[blackaces13]

There is an EXCELLENT chance that this guy has your hand and you will split the pot. Its happened to me numerous times when I flop a straight and get into a war with another player. Yet another reason NOT to fold here.

Of course you did say he was solid and there's no way he'd play J8 here UTG. But it is possible that it was suited and he was getting bored or the game was incredibly loose. Something to consider anyway.

[Gramps]

Even against a player who plays his draws aggressively, that raise to knock out the button suggests he may not have two clubs - and the fact that you bet out on the flop may convince UTG that YOU don't have two clubs. Nothing wrong with your play. You CAN'T fold this hand, that's super-weak if you do.

Maybe he has top pair with the T /images/graemlins/club.gif and J/Q/K/A /images/graemlins/club.gif. Oh well, tip your cap if he does. Maybe he has a set. Maybe he has 88. Enough scenarios where, against a solid aggressive player, you're winning this hand.

[Mike Gallo]

I cant teach you to make this fold because I doubt I will make this fold in this situation.

I posted a similiar hand a month ago. I flopped the nut straight someone flopped a flush. Even though he played it like he had the flush, I still called him down.