10-20: Keeping the momentum with AK

10-20 at Binion's. I open raise 4 off the button with AKo. Folded to unknown SB who 3-bets, fishy BB calls. I 4-bet. Both call.


Flop: 7d 7h 2c. Checked to me, I bet, both fold.


Thoughts appreciated.

sb had his road hand QsJs and bb had Ks6s

Cool, then that means my 4 bet might have caused the SB to make a mistake by folding on the flop.

where's the mistake?


he was in reality beaten at that point and (yes - your 4-bet "worked") he didn't think that even if he found a pair of Queens or Jacks he would necessarily win, so why risk being caught by a raise from bb?


gh

Your aggressive preflop play worked out well for you when the flop came ragged. I usually end up playing big slick badly and losing with it when the flop doesn't connect with my hand.


Do you usually play AK this aggressively before the flop and then afterwards, or are you able to fold the hand after the flop if their is any action?


Do you ever simply call preflop with it or only raise once, and if so in what situations? As you can see I'm trying to learn the correct way of playing what I consider a drawing hand.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

ChrisC.

He is getting 13-1 on a 7-1 shot to beat me on the turn. His fold was a huge mistake if he had QJs. Even bigger if he had a backdoor flush draw.

It is important to note that this game was much tighter than a "standard" low limit game.


I have been experimenting with 4-betting the blinds with a portion of my preflop raising hands. In this case I had AK. I posted a hand in medium stakes last week where I did it on the button with 78s. I find that this extra sb invested preflop really pays huge postflop dividends and makes the hands play much easier for me postflop.


Assume for a second that sb will 3-bet my MP preflop raise with pairs 55-99. My 4-bet makes it difficult for him to continue past the flop if it gets at all scary, since he is now very afraid of an overpair. If he thinks "AK, AQ", which would be reasonable since I don't 4 bet preflop, he can play much more strongly and correctly postflop.


Its something new that I've added into my preflop play and it's worked well so far.


As far as laying it down. In situations where there are many people seeing the flop, I need to hit to continue. Folding on the flop is routine in these multiway spots. But in headsup and 3 way shorthanded spots, an unimproved AK can be a very strong hand, and there must be substantial believable action before I muck what I consider a showdown hand, even unimproved.


Hope this helps

Yes, but that's why I like the 4-bet preflop. With AK, less chance opponent has AA or KK and not a big underdog to any other hand, preflop.


By 4-betting you are representing AA/KK to a lot of low limit players. He's afraid he needs runner-runner to win.

http://www.twodimes.net/poker/


Running: pokenum -h ac kh - qs js -- 7h 7d 2c :

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 2c 7d 7h

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV

Ac Kh 768 77.58 213 21.52 9 0.91 0.780

Qs Js 213 21.52 768 77.58 9 0.91 0.220

If I read your post correctly, you are saying that the QJs wins 21% of the time if this goes to the river and they showdown. He is getting 13-1 on his flop call, a substantial overlay on his 7-1 shot to improve on the turn, and also a significant overlay on his 4-1 dog status as indicated by your simulation.

Based on the simulation results, it's a losing proposition if QJs goes to a showdown everytime. There are 6.5 big bets in the pot when the flop action gets to him. Let's assume that each player will put 1 bet into the pot on the turn and river.


QJs will lose 768 times at a cost of 2.5 big bets each time. The total loss will be 1,920 big bets.


QJs will win 213 times for a win of 8.5 big bets each time. The total win will be 1,810.50.


QJs will tie 9 times for a win of 29.25 big bets.


The total loss in these 990 hands is -80.25 big bets.


HOWEVER, if QJs does not payoff on the river unimproved, it becomes a very +EV situation. So, as usual, good play post-flop is the key.

Its a bad situation for QJ simply because he *doesn't* know that I have AK and not an overpair. He can never know if his hand is best, even if he does catch.


My point is simply that according to the FTOP, it is a *substantial* mistake to fold on the flop. Remember, the FTOP assumes that he knows what my cards are.

i don't want to flog a dead horse here but i thought the point was that your four-bet was supposed to be a good bet because you won uncontested


i guessed he might have had QspadesJspades; and then we went off at a tangent


you think that it is good news he folded


dynasty calculates that you would have won slightly more if he did have QsJs


if he had had a hand that liked the flop, or, indeed, if there had been a different flop that suited his hand, then your four-bet with AK might not have been such a good bet