JJ: My Continuing Tale of Woe [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

PokerBob

04-05-2004, 11:32 PM

Well, after 7,700 hands, JJ is behind only 86s for me in BB/Hand lost (.66BB). I had JJ twice tonight and lost them both. Kill me. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Hand 1

Should I have kept firing here into the calling station?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB
Main Pot: 7.50 BB, between SB and Hero. > Pot won by SB (7.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows As Jd (two pair, aces and threes).
Hero shows Jc Jh (two pair, jacks and threes).
Outcome: SB wins 7.50 BB. 

Hand 2:
Is this a weak/tight muck or a prudent fold? Also, was it wise to bet the turn with a gutshot on the board and the BB still in, or am I asking for a c/r?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB
Main Pot: 6.25 BB, won by BB.
Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by BB.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. BB wins 7.25 BB.

BigBaitsim (milo)

04-05-2004, 11:54 PM

Again, over 7K hands you don't see JJ enough for the analysis to be meaningful, so quit crying about it. If you played them right, the outcome on any given hand is meaningless. Results-oriented play will get you killed.

EDIT: As an example, I have a DB of 5K hands from my recent switch to Empire. I am a very small winner with KK, which lags behing AA, QQ, JJ, TT and 77. AQs is a big winner and AKs is actually a loser. These are all statistical anomalies reflective of a small n (sample size). Wait until you have MANY thousands of hands more before concluding that JJ sucks or that you suck at playing JJ.

Whew, glad I got that off my chest. I like your play for the most part on the first hand. I hate to check through a river, but its hard to imagine a hand that would beat you that he would fold to a bet at that point, or a hand that would lose to you that he would call, so checking through the river might have been a good play.

On the second hand I'm not so sure. His CR may meen he's on a flush draw, but more likely means a straight or set. I might have called, then called one on the river. At Party 1/2 there are so many bad players that then CR might have even meant any number of hands. My guess is that he foolishly called your pre-flop raise with A5o and has the straight, but we'll never know...