Solitare
04-05-2004, 10:02 PM
Interesting since due to the increadibly passive post-flop play, we get to see almost every hand.
Pretty new to table, so no firm reads yet. One note on UTG +1 as loose/passive (>25% VP$IP, <3%PFR). As I played at the table more it turned out that they were very loose passive, playing any two-suited and not betting/raising flopped sets.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Flop: (30 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Turn: (18.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.
River: (24.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.
Final Pot: 24.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 24.50 BB, between UTG, UTG+1, MP2, MP3, Hero and SB.</font> > <font color="white">Pot won by MP3 (24.50 BB).</font>
Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Jd Js (two pair, jacks and twos).
UTG shows 9d 7d (one pair, twos).
UTG+1 shows 9c Jc (one pair, twos).
MP2 shows Qc As (one pair, twos).
MP3 shows 9s Kd (two pair, kings and twos).
Hero shows 3c 3s (two pair, threes and twos).
Outcome: MP3 wins 24.50 BB. </font>
Based on Ed Miller's posts I reraised my pocket threes after limping due to 7 other players in the pot with 6 needing only to call one bet. Unfortunately, I didn't follow up on the later rounds.
After the hand I made a comment to the table that the SB had been way too passive and should have been betting/raising all the way. I realize now that I was just as wrong with my own passivity.
According to Poker Tracker, here are the % winning chances after the flop and turn based on the 6 out of 7 known hands (ALSO IN WHITE)
<font color="white">
Flop Turn
SB: Jd Js 22.75% 45.71%
UTG: 9d 7d 23.21% 11.43%
UTG+1: 9c Jc 4.27% 0.00%
MP2: Qc As 17.40% 17.14%
MP3: 9s Kd 9.01% 8.57%
Hero: 3c 3s 23.36% 17.14%
</font>
Given that after the flop I was a 23.36% favorite vs expectations of 14.29% in a 7 hand pot I should have been betting/raising all the way. Even after the turn I was still ahead 17.14% vs. the same 14.29%.
I see now that me and the SB should have been working the implicit collusion and making the weak hands pay dearly for their draws. Maybe calling two bets would have been enough to drive out the eventual super-weak-hand winner and at least the SB would have gotten the pot he deserved.
And I still wish a 4 had hit the board.
Pretty new to table, so no firm reads yet. One note on UTG +1 as loose/passive (>25% VP$IP, <3%PFR). As I played at the table more it turned out that they were very loose passive, playing any two-suited and not betting/raising flopped sets.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Flop: (30 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Turn: (18.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.
River: (24.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.
Final Pot: 24.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 24.50 BB, between UTG, UTG+1, MP2, MP3, Hero and SB.</font> > <font color="white">Pot won by MP3 (24.50 BB).</font>
Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Jd Js (two pair, jacks and twos).
UTG shows 9d 7d (one pair, twos).
UTG+1 shows 9c Jc (one pair, twos).
MP2 shows Qc As (one pair, twos).
MP3 shows 9s Kd (two pair, kings and twos).
Hero shows 3c 3s (two pair, threes and twos).
Outcome: MP3 wins 24.50 BB. </font>
Based on Ed Miller's posts I reraised my pocket threes after limping due to 7 other players in the pot with 6 needing only to call one bet. Unfortunately, I didn't follow up on the later rounds.
After the hand I made a comment to the table that the SB had been way too passive and should have been betting/raising all the way. I realize now that I was just as wrong with my own passivity.
According to Poker Tracker, here are the % winning chances after the flop and turn based on the 6 out of 7 known hands (ALSO IN WHITE)
<font color="white">
Flop Turn
SB: Jd Js 22.75% 45.71%
UTG: 9d 7d 23.21% 11.43%
UTG+1: 9c Jc 4.27% 0.00%
MP2: Qc As 17.40% 17.14%
MP3: 9s Kd 9.01% 8.57%
Hero: 3c 3s 23.36% 17.14%
</font>
Given that after the flop I was a 23.36% favorite vs expectations of 14.29% in a 7 hand pot I should have been betting/raising all the way. Even after the turn I was still ahead 17.14% vs. the same 14.29%.
I see now that me and the SB should have been working the implicit collusion and making the weak hands pay dearly for their draws. Maybe calling two bets would have been enough to drive out the eventual super-weak-hand winner and at least the SB would have gotten the pot he deserved.
And I still wish a 4 had hit the board.