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ddubois

04-05-2004, 04:19 AM

The last week I've gotten AA alot, so I guess I should be happy - 17 times infact. And I've managed to lose with it 13 times, for a net loss of $32.35. AA is no longer my best winner, it's now fourth, hanging out with ATs and JJ saying "yo wassup".

Hug me. Console me. Tell me it's all variance and soon this will be a distant faded memory. Then critique my play. Also, what kinds of general parameters and situations induce you to give up and toss your AAs?

HAND 1:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, SB folds, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.
I tried to get tricky with the limp. I didn't want my AA to only get me 75 cents. Probably a mistake.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.
So he has AA, AK, or KK.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.
I still have my rockets which is likely the best hand, and now I've picked up nut flush draw, which he seems to be scared of.

River: (11.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.
Bet for value?

Final Pot: 13.25 BB
Main Pot: 13.25 BB, between Hero and BB. > Pot won by BB (13.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Kh Kd (three of a kind, kings).
Hero shows Ac Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins 13.25 BB. 

HAND 2:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.
I wanted to check raise, hoping to get more money in the middle. My raises are getting a bunch of respect at this table, so I thought I would mix it up. Or maybe I'll induce a bluff. I am risking giving the flush draw or the 2nd pair draw infinite odds though, but the flush draw would call .50 anyway, and if he had a pair, he'd probably bet, thus enabling my check raise - is this logic sound?

Turn: (2.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (4.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.
He gave me no reason not to bet again.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB
Main Pot: 6.25 BB, between Hero and MP1. > Pot won by MP1 (6.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ah As (three of a kind, aces).
MP1 shows 7d Jd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 6.25 BB. 

HAND 3:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.75.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, MP1 (poster) folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 caps, BB calls, Hero calls.
Simply awful. Heat of the moment mistake.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB
Main Pot: 20.50 BB, between MP2, BB and Hero. > Pot won by BB (20.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 7h 7d (full house, sevens full of fives).
Hero shows As Ac (two pair, aces and fives).
MP2 shows 3d 3c (full house, threes full of fives).
Outcome: BB wins 20.50 BB.


HAND 4:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO (poster) calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (24 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, SB caps, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.
Ok, I'll give SB credit for the set and call down.

Turn: (22 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (26 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 30 BB
Main Pot: 30 BB, between SB, UTG+1, Hero and MP2. > Pot won by SB (30 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows 4s 8s (two pair, eights and fours).
UTG+1 shows Qc Kc (one pair, kings).
Hero shows Ad Ah (one pair, aces).
MP2 shows 5s Ts (one pair, tens).
Outcome: SB wins 30 BB.
Un-[censored]-beleivable. Yes, he capped the no-pair backdoor flush and hit runner-runner-his-garbage.

HAND 5:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (26.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, CO caps, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.
This is my only example of "Ok, ok, I give up, you beat AA!!" Normally I call down almost anything with AA, which refers me back to my question at the top of the post. What kind of board and action does it take to get you to fold AA? PS: I wasted .50 with the 3bet, huh?

Turn: (18.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls.

River: (22.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 23.75 BB
Main Pot: 22.75 BB, won by UTG+1.
Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by UTG+1.

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 23.75 BB. 

HAND 6:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.
Joy. Unlike the prior hand, there was no action here to slow me down.

Turn: (8 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (11 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB
Main Pot: 14 BB, between Button, SB and Hero. > Pot won by Button (14 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Ks 5s (one pair, kings).
Hero shows As Ad (three of a kind, aces).
Button shows 7c 8c (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins 14 BB. 

HAND 7:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.
Should I have folded to the check-raise, or is making the crying call OK?

River: (8.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB
Main Pot: 10.75 BB, between UTG+1 and Hero. > Pot won by UTG+1 (10.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 shows 7c 8c (three of a kind, eights).
Hero shows Ah As (two pair, aces and eights).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 10.75 BB. 

HAND 8:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP3 calls.
Give UTG credit for set, slow-played or otherwise? Bet-fold, bet-call, bet-raise?
River: (16.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 raises, Hero calls, UTG calls.
I can't fold, but leading out is... awful?
Final Pot: 22.75 BB
Main Pot: 22.75 BB, between UTG, MP3 and Hero. > Pot won by MP3 (22.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows 5s 5d (three of a kind, fives).
MP3 shows Jd 9h (straight, jack high).
Hero shows Ad As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: MP3 wins 22.75 BB.

ddubois

04-05-2004, 02:50 PM

Another one after I posted.

It's a good thing I'm up almost 200BB this weekend, or I'd be finding myself an AK47 and going postal right now:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero caps, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.
Ok, clearly UTG has AA/KK/QQ/AK.. maybe a hand he wanted to limit the field with and then wasn't happy to call with like AT/AJ/TT/etc. If he's really loose, any two cards T or greater.

Flop: (13 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.
I narrow him down to AA/KK/QQ. If there's a chop, I'll be a little sad, but boy will I be happy when he shows me KK.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.
The second 9 only made me pause for a second, but I didn't move my mouse off raise. I did not beleive he could have a 9 from the prior streets. I thought a chop was extremely likely at this point.

Final Pot: 24.50 BB
Main Pot: 24.50 BB, between UTG and Hero. > Pot won by UTG (24.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Kh 2h (full house, twos full of nines).
Hero shows Ad Ah (two pair, aces and nines).
Outcome: UTG wins 24.50 BB.

After this hand was over, I said "wth" and someone not involved in the hand actually laughed at me and said, "what did you think he had?". How the hell can I expect someone to raise UTG and cold-call two re-raises with any hand that has a 2?

Sloats

04-05-2004, 04:47 PM

"Pair of Aces is a hand that will win you very little or lose you a lot."

That last hand reminded me of a hand I wanted to post: What not to do with pocket Aces.

I had pair of 5s, UTG I think. Called around to maybe 6. No raisers.
Flop is 9 8 8. Called around again.
Turn is 5. Full House! I bet, two callers.
River is 9. I have a sinking feeling. I bet, one raise, call, I call.

Winner has T 9. Caller decides to show his pocket Aces, which he never bet once, and lost any hope of a pot because he never raised me or the other person out of it.

el_grande

04-05-2004, 06:39 PM

Sorry I don't have the time to comment on every hand, but the biggest things I see are:

Hand 3: Really bad river coldcall. No way AA wins there unless the table is just rediculous.

Hand 5: Bad fold on the cap. See what happens on the turn.

Hand 8: Don't like the turn 3-bet.

The way I look at AA... It is a great hand on most flops, so feel free to raise and reraise with it. BUT turn and river raises almost always mean someone has two-pair or better. In order to call down with AA you need odds to do so- you are behind. And you certainly don't want to 3-bet the turn if all you have is an overpair.

It seems to be a consistent thing with your play. You seem to be in love with AA and aren't giving enough respect to turn and river raises.

Chris Daddy Cool

04-05-2004, 07:07 PM

I only read the first several hands...

HAND 1.
Folded to me on the button with a premium hand, I almost always raise because an observant player in the blinds will precieve it as a steal and will defend almost any hand worth playing, but it worked out for you because you got the preflop capped.
Now as for the rest of the hand...
Your turn raise is too agressive IMO. If your hand is improved on the river, then you can go for your raise as even if a club fell on the river, BB would still probably bet into you for value. Your river bet of course is only good if BB has AK and not KK or KQ.

HAND 3:
Terrible river coldcall. But you already knew that right? The hardest part with AA is letting them go, but it'll save you a ton of money.

MortalNuts

04-05-2004, 07:46 PM

At some point, you have to ask yourself which you think is more likely: (a) that he made a couple-SB mistake by raising a hand that contains a 2 PF, or (b) that he is making a whole lot of BB mistakes by raising and reraising you with a hand that doesn't justify it.

Where you decide (b) is more likely than (a) obviously depends on your assessment of this player. Without knowing anything else, here I'd at least consider it (and not 3-bet) on the turn, and I'd definitely shut up about my hand on the river (and not 3-bet).

cheers,

mn

Nottom

04-05-2004, 08:09 PM

Hand 1: Raise preflop, other than that I think you played this fine. Your opponent here is awful.

Hand 2: Bet the flop, your opponent here is worse than the first guy.

Hand 3: Fold the river but you knew that. Both your opponents here are awful as well.

Hand 4: Classic Party poker moment, I don't think I need to tell you what to think about this guy.

Hand 5: The flop fold is pretty bad. The CO 3-bet preflop there is no reason to think you are behind here unless he has TT or AK /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Hand 6: Played this fine and once again you opponents are morons.

Hand 7: I'd normally call down heads up unless this guy is a real rock.

Hand 8: If you 3-bet the turn becasue you thouhgt you were ahead than betting the river is correct. If you think there is a good chance you are beat then you need to check behind. Either way, you need to fold the to the raise as this is a classic case of an opponent raising into a protected pot.

Nottom

04-05-2004, 08:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Pair of Aces is a hand that will win you very little or lose you a lot."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be quite happy if I never saw this line used in reference to a limit game ever again.

Nottom

04-05-2004, 08:12 PM

Hand 9: Call the river. Reference my previous post for my oppinion of your opponent.

Zetack

04-06-2004, 01:57 AM

Consoling ahead: Geez that really sucks. What a rough stretch.

My worst streak with AA started with 5/6 losses and stretched up to 7/9. Although my handy dandy calculator says thats a one percentage point worse losing streak than yours, yours looks even more painful. It'll change though...since that streak and including it, I've won 103/134 with the aces or a hair under 77 percent of the time. Yea for the long run! (If I'm getting them at the rate stats say I should close to 30,000 hands...ok not quite the long run, but at least long enough for the Aces to be nice to me).

So, over time, its hard to be a loser with aces cause they'll hold up so much. Still, it looks like you ride em longer and harder than they are worth. If you push TPTK this hard on the turn and river you're probably bleeding off a lot of chips that if saved would spend just as well as chips won. If not, ponder the differences between TPTK and AA.

--Zetack

Clarkmeister

04-06-2004, 02:27 AM

Ed Miller

04-06-2004, 02:46 AM

The hardest part with AA is letting them go, but it'll save you a ton of money.

I think that is just plain false. I estimate that if I resolved NEVER to fold AA UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES for the next year, my winrate would drop by at most $3/hour at $15-$30.

jdl22

04-06-2004, 03:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"Pair of Aces is a hand that will win you very little or lose you a lot."

[/ QUOTE ]

If Doyle Brunson said something almost like this for a completely different game then it must be true for this one right?

This is preposterous in limit hold'em and it's even worse since we're talking about party. All the more still look at the crap this guy is getting called down with and tell me with pocket aces you stand to "win very little" at best.

In No Limit this makes sense. One reason is that the most common cards to call a preflop raise with are smaller pocket pairs looking for a set. Suppose you have pocket aces and make a fair raise preflop and I have pocket eights. Unless your raise is a fairly high percentage of my stack (or yours) I will call simply looking to flop a set. If I hit my set I have just won all of your chips (you will lose a big pot), if I miss you will just get the preflop raise (you have won a small pot). Hence you either win a small pot or lose a big one.

In limit, particularly in these loose games, you are going to either win a huge pot or lose a huge pot with aces. You will win more than enough big pots on average to make up for the times you lose. In fact if you were to play true no fold'em hold'em your EV goes up the more people you're up against.

Saborion

04-06-2004, 03:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, clearly UTG has AA/KK/QQ/AK.. maybe a hand he wanted to limit the field with and then wasn't happy to call with like AT/AJ/TT/etc. If he's really loose, any two cards T or greater.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that so clear?

[ QUOTE ]
I narrow him down to AA/KK/QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd put him on KK, QQ or JJ.

[ QUOTE ]
Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I'd be even more inclined to put him on KK, QQ or JJ.

[ QUOTE ]
River: (16.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises ... The second 9 only made me pause for a second, but I didn't move my mouse off raise. I did not beleive he could have a 9 from the prior streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that it's unlikely that he has a 9, or a 2, but it's not impossible? Maybe I'm a wuss, but when someone has played a hand like he has, unless I know he's a bit wacko, I slow down a bit.

[ QUOTE ]
I thought a chop was extremely likely at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

More likely than him holding at least one 2 or one 9 in his hand?

[ QUOTE ]
UTG shows Kh 2h (full house, twos full of nines).
Hero shows Ad Ah (two pair, aces and nines).
Outcome: UTG wins 24.50 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not everyone that play Hold 'em play it as you do.

I'm a newbie, but I do believe that somewhere along the ride you have to start giving him credit for something, unless, as I stated above, you know his a wacko. It's not like you haven't been telling him you have a pretty good hand.

Saborion

04-06-2004, 03:45 AM

... that doesn't agree with the turn raise?
If the BB is a somewhat ok player, pre-flop we should be able to put him on AA-JJ (maybe even TT?), AK, maybe AQ. Given that Hero has AA, that possibility is pretty slim. So after the BB 3-bet the flop, would it be wrong to remove JJ-TT from his possible holdings? That leaves us with KK, QQ, AK as the most possible hands. AA might be in there, same goes for some sort of draw, but not likely given the cap pre. Or? If the BB has KK or QQ, he's not folding to the turn raise. He might even 3-bet it. If he has AK, then he's not likely to fold either, but I suppose there's a small possibility that he might. So what I wonder is, is the turn raise a semi-bluff raise, or a raise for value? Because I don't think it would be a good semi-bluff raise given the BB's likely holdings. Now, all this assumes the BB isn't a wacko.

What is it that I don't understand here?

Nottom

04-06-2004, 04:07 AM

If this wasn't a blind defense situation I might agree, but people do strange things when they are heads up from the blind.

Saborion

04-06-2004, 05:39 AM

Now that I've seen, so I must agree. But still, in most cases, would the cap pre and bet & 3-bet on a flop like that? Maybe they would. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris Daddy Cool

04-06-2004, 06:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that is just plain false. I estimate that if I resolved NEVER to fold AA UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES for the next year, my winrate would drop by at most $3/hour at $15-$30.

[/ QUOTE ]

.1 BB/ HR isn't a lot of money for misplaying one single hand? It probably is pretty insignificant, and you'll lose more money misplaying other hands, but it adds up doesn't it?

Ed Miller

04-06-2004, 06:29 AM

.1 BB/ HR isn't a lot of money for misplaying one single hand? It probably is pretty insignificant, and you'll lose more money misplaying other hands, but it adds up doesn't it?

Ok, how about this? I bet the winrate of most people who post on this board would GO UP if they resolved never to fold AA ever. Many of you fold too damn much after the flop, and folding aces at the wrong time is very expensive.

Trying to find just the right time to fold aces is mostly academic. You guys have much bigger leaks.

Sloats

04-06-2004, 09:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Pair of Aces is a hand that will win you very little or lose you a lot."

[/ QUOTE ]

If Doyle Brunson said something almost like this for a completely different game then it must be true for this one right?

This is preposterous in limit hold'em and it's even worse since we're talking about party. All the more still look at the crap this guy is getting called down with and tell me with pocket aces you stand to "win very little" at best.

In No Limit this makes sense. One reason is that the most common cards to call a preflop raise with are smaller pocket pairs looking for a set. Suppose you have pocket aces and make a fair raise preflop and I have pocket eights. Unless your raise is a fairly high percentage of my stack (or yours) I will call simply looking to flop a set. If I hit my set I have just won all of your chips (you will lose a big pot), if I miss you will just get the preflop raise (you have won a small pot). Hence you either win a small pot or lose a big one.

In limit, particularly in these loose games, you are going to either win a huge pot or lose a huge pot with aces. You will win more than enough big pots on average to make up for the times you lose. In fact if you were to play true no fold'em hold'em your EV goes up the more people you're up against.

[/ QUOTE ]

And reference to Nottom.

It has been my experience (very limited) that when I have AA and I come out betting, I'll only get 2-3 callers and they fold on the flop. So basically I'll will win 4 SB. But I have also seen AA go to the end and consantly get beat by hand that should have not been allowed to play (reraised on turn and river) and so the AA personally loses 4BB. Too me it was applicable.

Maybe I just need to find the Party table where everyone doesn't fold after the first bet......

Nottom

04-06-2004, 02:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I just need to find the Party table where everyone doesn't fold after the first bet......

[/ QUOTE ]

OK and when you do that can you tell me where to find the table where everyone folds to your flop bet?

Sloats

04-06-2004, 02:54 PM

I was expecting a reply more along the lines of "Maybe your reputation is too tight."

Zetack

04-06-2004, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It has been my experience (very limited) that when I have AA and I come out betting, I'll only get 2-3 callers and they fold on the flop. So basically I'll will win 4 SB. But I have also seen AA go to the end and consantly get beat by hand that should have not been allowed to play (reraised on turn and river) and so the AA personally loses 4BB. Too me it was applicable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a thought...track your actual results with AA. Poker tracker sure makes that easy. I suspect your impression that AA wins small and loses big is simply that, an impression. Compared to any other hand you have, its gonna be the big winner over time.

And how can it not take big pots from time to time? If nothing else it makes sets as often as anyother pair, sometimes it turns into the nut straight or flush or even nut boat. And sometimes when those things happen other people have great hands too. And with the AA you're around on later streets often enough to make big catches.

And sometimes people get a little crazy with nothing, or top pair on the board or whatever.

Heck, I've won plenty of small pots with it. One day I had AA four times and picked up the blinds three times and once the blinds and one additional small bet. But I've also picked up my share of hefty pots with it.

Sloats

04-06-2004, 06:38 PM

You guys are making retract my comment. I definitely have not played as many games as anyone here... maybe 300-400.

I've just noticed that I thought I'd see a lot more callers to bets than what I actually see. I've seen too many $1.75 post (well, not taken by me) in the 1/0.50 games I've played.