Backgammon info

[Daliman]

What is the best course of action for me to take if i want to learn backgammon? I am currently less-than novice, haven't played the game in probably 25 years, and dont even remember how to play it.
It seems like there's an awful lot of top backgammon players playing well in tourneys lately, and I'd like to see if maybe it may help my game, plus, I'd like to learn to play, and play well.
What would be the best books and/or software for me to get, in what kind of order?

[Izverg04]

Head over to the rec.games.backgammon archive page (http://www.bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?menu) and read all the posts, especially strategy-related. This is an excellent venue to start thinking about backgammon. I wish this forum had a best-of page like that.

Then get Snowie (http://www.bgsnowie.com/index.dhtml), play against it or on a site that lets you export your moves, like FIBS (http://www.fibs.com/) , and have Snowie analyze your moves. When you can see your mistakes after every game you play, you'll improve much, much faster than by experience alone.

[pzhon]

The rec.games.backgammon archive is great, and includes book reviews. If you are serious, you will want Magriel's Backgammon, but there are many other good books.

I don't agree that getting Snowie should be a first step, though I am a satisfied customer. There are a lot of other free/inexpensive resources I used before buying the bots.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif You can download a free version of the very strong bot Jellyfish (http://jelly.effect.no) for free. The free version plays rapidly at the level of all but the top 100 human players. There is a full version that provides quantitative analysis, too. There is a free bot under develepment called gnu backgammon that has almost all of Snowie's features and some new ones, but it is harder to learn to use it. Jellyfish is easy for a novice to use.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif It is extremely useful to go through annotated matches that are available online, many of which were created using Snowie. Google: annotated backgammon match. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=annotated+backgammon+match&btnG=Search) The best annotated matches have comments by top humans in addition to bot rollout results, and these are much more rare. You can find some in books, and some in the excellent electronic magazines GammonVillage (http://www.gammonvillage.com) and GammOnLine (http://www.gammonline.com).

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif In addition to playing, you can watch backgammon played online, saving the matches for later review. There is no hidden information, so this is much more informative than in poker. You can watch and record matches on FIBS and using a guest account on GamesGrid. GamesGrid has more of the top players and the software is better, but you won't find many paying members willing to play guests.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Look for your local backgammon club. Most welcome beginners and have regularly scheduled tournaments with low entry fees. Live play isn't very efficient for learning, but it is much easier to discuss how to approach a position over a physical board than online.

Because of the availability of quality books, world-class bots, and the internet, backgammon is easier to learn now than it has ever been. The level of the game has risen tremendously over the past 25 years.

The reason you see so many backgammon players playing poker is that there is more money in poker.

[Daliman]

Thank you very much for the info. I have already downloaded Jellyfish 3.5 lite, and am going to put in a book order soon. XM-22's is a given, but I am going to look around a bit for reviews for the best intro book.

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/blush.gif ya really wanta play poker...

gl /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Izverg04]

Screw the books. The brightest mind in backgammon writing today is, in my opinion, Doug Zare who hasn't gotten around to publishing his stuff yet. Read his articles for free here (http://www.math.columbia.edu/~zare/bgarticles.html) and by buying a short term subscription at GammonVillage.com.

[lunchmeat]

I found Robertie's "Backgammon for Winners" to be a helpful introduction.

[iceblink]

I highly recommend Magriel's "Backgammon", as has already been suggested. I just learned backgammon myself a couple of years ago, and I found Magriel's book to be the most helpful when I first started, with clear, easy-to-understand explanations. It's still considered to be THE classic work on BG, even though it was first published over 25 years ago. I'd go through Magriel a couple of times first, then graduate on to the more technical stuff, like Robertie.

I've also found the free version of Jellyfish very helpful, as well as the free GNU BG. I've heard that GNU BG also has a very good tutuorial function, but I haven't tried it yet.

Here's a link to a cool article on the world of BG hustling:

BG Hustler (http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Features/CA_Feature_Basic_Template/0,2344,569,00.html)

BTW, Daliman, have you ever been to the Museo-Teatro de Dali in Figueras? I'll never forget that place!

[Izverg04]

[ QUOTE ]
Simon Jones (his name and some identifying details have been changed) ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you know who this "Simon Jones" is? I am curious.

[iceblink]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Simon Jones (his name and some identifying details have been changed) ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you know who this "Simon Jones" is? I am curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've often wondered about that myself. Apparently he's not even close to being among the top BG players in the world. But his real skill seems to lie in the ability to get rich fish to play with him for 1000's per point.

[Zeiros]

[ QUOTE ]
The rec.games.backgammon archive is great, and includes book reviews. If you are serious, you will want Magriel's Backgammon, but there are many other good books.


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget to take a trip to your local library, it's a resource that's all too often overlooked nowadays. I was able to borrow a number of backgammon books -- then only purchase a copy of the one that I found easiest to read and understand (Jacoby's 'The Backgammon Book').

I would like to read Magriel but it is out of print at the moment and copies go on ebay for rather more than I'm willing to pay. (anybody looking to sell a copy? /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, Daliman, have you ever been to the Museo-Teatro de Dali in Figueras? I'll never forget that place!


[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, just the Dali Museum in St petersburg, FL.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]

BTW, Daliman, have you ever been to the Museo-Teatro de Dali in Figueras? I'll never forget that place!

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny you mention that....I just got back from a 3 week vacation to Spain and Italy. My girlfriend is obsessed w/ Dali. So we figured we would take the two hour train ride from Barcelona to Gerona and Figures to see the famed Dali museo. We had a Lonley Planet tour guide that said "Figures is a sleepy little town, some might call it a dive, that has exactly one attraction, Salvador Dali." So, we finally get there after carying our luggage through the cobblestone streets to our hotel. As we are checking in we ask directions to the museum.
The lady says "Sabes que el museo esta cerrado en los lunes, verdad?" (Rough translation: you know you're fukced, right?)
It was a monday, by the way. We had to go back to Gerona to fly to Rome early the next day...

So, we spent the afternoon taking pictures of the outside of the building w/ all the loaves of bread stuck on the purple walls and the giant eggs on the roof.

[Waterproof]

I've heard this story before, and I believe that "Simon Jones" is Mike Svobodny. Mike is among the top 25 players in the world. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to read Magriel but it is out of print at the moment and copies go on ebay for rather more than I'm willing to pay. (anybody looking to sell a copy? /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Carol Joy Cole (http://www.flintbg.com/boutique.html) sells backgammon books and equipment, including the new paperback version of Magriel's Backgammon ($45). I've bought a lot of stuff from her, and will buy more in the future.

The cover falls off the paperback, but your local library might rebind it for you. Print shops can also rebind it, but they will charge more than a library would and they don't have as much experience.

[Zeiros]

Thanks. That's quite a bit cheaper than the GBP55 (almost dead on $100) that all of the sellers on Amazon Z-shops are asking for!

I'll just have to make sure that I don't end up paying far too much for shipping.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would like to read Magriel but it is out of print at the moment and copies go on ebay for rather more than I'm willing to pay. (anybody looking to sell a copy? /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Carol Joy Cole (http://www.flintbg.com/boutique.html) sells backgammon books and equipment, including the new paperback version of Magriel's Backgammon ($45). I've bought a lot of stuff from her, and will buy more in the future.

The cover falls off the paperback, but your local library might rebind it for you. Print shops can also rebind it, but they will charge more than a library would and they don't have as much experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

[iceblink]

Ouch, Sossman, that hurts! To be so close, yet.... Well, you'll just have to make another trip to Spain one of these days, huh?! I love that country, including Figueras, which I found to be a very quaint, friendly little town.

Your experience in Figueras reminds me of when I was in Amsterdam back in 1990 and wanted to see the special Van Gogh centennial exhibit. Turned out that scalpers had bought up all the tickets and were re-selling them for hundereds of dollars each! I was practically broke after backpacking around Europe for a coupla months, so I missed the chance to see the biggest-ever exhibit of one of my all-time favorite artists.

[iceblink]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard this story before, and I believe that "Simon Jones" is Mike Svobodny. Mike is among the top 25 players in the world. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I hadn't heard that "Simon Jones" was supposed to be Svobodny. My understanding from the Cigar Aficionado article (or maybe something I read elsewhere) was that a lot of the top players are jealous and/or amazed that this "Simon" does so well, since he's NOT a top player. The implication being that he makes up for what he lacks in BG skill with "people" skills.

Also, I thought Svobodny was American. This "Simon Jones" guy is from the UK.

[iceblink]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, Daliman, have you ever been to the Museo-Teatro de Dali in Figueras? I'll never forget that place!


[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, just the Dali Museum in St petersburg, FL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard that's a very good museum too, but haven't made it down there yet.

But if you're a true Dali fan, you just gotta make the pilgrimage to Figueras some day, Daliman! They've also got a couple of his earlier works at one of the museums over in Madrid, which is also a great city with tremendous nightlife.

BTW, how's the backgammon coming along?

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
They've also got a couple of his earlier works at one of the museums over in Madrid, which is also a great city with tremendous nightlife.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's the Museo Thyssen-Bornemisza in Madrid, it's pretty good. It has, I think, two or three Dali pieces (including the one w/ the tigers and the elephant w/ the huge legs, i forget the name)
It also has this (http://www.vangoghgallery.com/painting/p_0797.htm) famous van gogh.

[Waterproof]

Wrong /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

"his name and some identifying details have been changed"- Cigar Aficionado

Trust me. It's Svobodny. I've heard the exact same stories- minus a few detail changes- about him before. You think just some hustler could live that life with minimal skill? No way, he would hit a wall and go bust... just like poker... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

"Also, I thought Svobodny was American. This "Simon Jones" guy is from the UK."---> details changed

[Waterproof]

As for having minimal skill...
"Today, Simon is widely regarded by cognoscenti as one of the top three backgammon players in the world." -CA


Also...
"Michael Konik, Cigar Aficionado's gambling columnist, is the author of The Man with the $100,000 Breasts and Other Gambling Stories." -CA

Svobodny was the one who lost that bet... I see a connection here /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[iceblink]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They've also got a couple of his earlier works at one of the museums over in Madrid, which is also a great city with tremendous nightlife.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's the Museo Thyssen-Bornemisza in Madrid, it's pretty good. It has, I think, two or three Dali pieces (including the one w/ the tigers and the elephant w/ the huge legs, i forget the name)
It also has this (http://www.vangoghgallery.com/painting/p_0797.htm) famous van gogh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, that's interesting Soss, cuz I don't remember going to that museum when I lived in Madrid back in 1990.... and I woulda remembered the Van Gogh! Wonder if it was opened after 1990.

The museum I was thinking of is the Museo Espanol de Arte Contemporaneo (MEAC). It has some very early Dali pieces that are more realistic in style, like the well-known one showing the back of a girl looking out a window.

[arx]

Daliman, yoou should make it a priority to come over this year. 2004 is officially Dali´s year over here.

http://www.dali2004.org/lang.html

BTW, the Thyssen museum opened in Madrid just a few years ago, like 99 or 2000.

[iceblink]

Good point, Waterproof. Didn't think they would change a detail like his country of origin--after all, there are a lot of BG players in the US. Maybe he wanted the added layer of smokescreen.

Funny you should mention Konik's $100,000 Breasts book. I just got around to reading it last month. Very good collection of gambling stories, though I was disappointed to see that he didn't include the BG one. Wonder if that guy ever had the implants removed.... Have you read Konik's other story collection, Telling Lies and Getting Paid?