Should I have slowed down with AA? Is he screaming set? [Archive]

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AZK

04-04-2004, 05:43 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 caps, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (18 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (17 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (33 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 caps, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 49 BB
Main Pot: 49 BB, between Hero, SB, UTG+1 and MP1. > Pot won by UTG+1 (49 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Ks Th (two pair, kings and tens).
UTG+1 shows Qd Ah (straight, ace high).
MP1 shows Js Jc (three of a kind, jacks).
Hero shows Ad Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 49 BB.

blackaces13

04-04-2004, 06:11 PM

Wow, that pot is so big I don't even know what you should have done. All I know is you shouldn't have 3-bet the turn. Seems like you have to "know" you're beaten on the river when its 3 bets to you but how do you fold in a 50BB pot? You got taken for a wild ride there and its tough to fold aces. Rough hand.

siccjay

04-04-2004, 06:37 PM

slap UTG+1 for being a lucky bastard

HajiShirazu

04-05-2004, 03:43 AM

When it's two bets to me on the turn I probably muck.

ZootMurph

04-05-2004, 10:34 AM

I agree that UTG+1 should be slapped for being so lucky. But there are several disturbing things in this hand. SB, for example, staying in against all those raises with a measley K-10. SB BETTING into all those raises with only a pair of 10s. After our Hero three bet preflop, I'd have folded the K-10... and again after the flop 3 bet, I'd have folded. Yet he ground out a larger loss for himself...

As for the Aces... after a bet AND a raise on the flop, I'd have just called. After a rag fell on the turn and still a bet and raise... I'd have folded the rockets... You have to think that betting into the raises from the flop on the turn, AND a reraise on the turn, that you are beaten... probably with 2 pairs. I would have assumed the SB for a flush draw with the bet/call, and MP1 with 2 pair or trip 5 (since he did not raise preflop with pocket Js or 10s). On the river, no one had a flush draw, and all were in the capped pot for 3 betting rounds. You MUST know your Aces are beat at this point, and can't call. In addition, UTG+1 capped preflop, then was quiet until the King on the river, when he started going crazy...

My river reads were: UTG+1 had trip kings (wrong - straight), SB had busted flush (but no clue why he was betting unless he also hit two pair - thinking 3-10 of Hearts), and MP1 had trip 5s (wrong - trip Jacks). Just curious what other's reads were (especially the poster)?

StellarWind

04-05-2004, 03:27 PM

Do you think no one heard you and UTG+1 cap the flop? What do you think it means when SB and MP1 act like you guys don't even exist?

Be very afraid.

You should expect to be behind when the flop is raised before it gets to you. They probably have some combination of sets, two-pairs, and very strong draws. You should not be considering raising. You need to consider how much it is going to cost to play this hand, the probablility of improving to a set or aces up, and the likelihood of winning if you do or don't improve.

I don't think an immediate fold is insane, although I probably couldn't bear to actually do it. My point is that you need a completely different mindset when something like this happens. You only have one pair and minimal chance to improve. It sounds like they collectively have both better hands and more outs.

Once the turn is raised you need to fold. Yes the pot is big, but you are in terrible trouble and lost an additional 8 BB by not doing so. Note that as so often happens in two-way wars, one opponent was out-of-control but the other delivered the goods. It's uncommon for both combatants to be insane. Even when you are ahead by some wild chance the table usually has many outs.