Know when to fold'em

I still find it very hard to lay down a good hand. If you've followed my saga with AA this past week you'll know I lost 10 times in a row with rockets, and I played all of them out to the bitter end. (Incidentally I got them 4 more times last night in 200 hands, making it 17 times this week, losing 13 times and I still haven't layed them dowm).


This hand is a good example of hands that usually cost me extra bets. Maybe I'm showing some improvement.


2/4 online. I'm dealt Qc Tc in the small blind. EP raises, cut off calls, button calls. I think 4 players is enough with this hand so I call. (Who lays this down?) Big blind folds.


4 players and 4 bb's in the pot (after rake).


*** FLOP *** : [ 3s Qd Jc ]


I check (intending to check-raise). WHo bets out here? EP checks. cut off bets and button raises. I 3-bet. (again what do you think?). EP folds and the other two call.


*** TURN *** : [ 3s Qd Jc ] [ Js ]


Now it's hard. My flush and Straight draws are gone, and my 2 pair won't work. Even my Q might not be any good. If I bet now it's almost a complete bluff, but checking pretty much commits me to folding. What's the play??


I checked, CO checked and button bet. I folded. I can't imagine I'm ahead now. Cut off called


*** RIVER *** : [ 3s Qd Jc Js ] [ 8d ]


Cutoff check-called and the button showed JhTh. THe cutoff had 44 (??).


Comments on all streets appreciated.

This is only how I would have played it.


PRE-FLOP:

I call with this hand in SB every time unless there is a raise, then I would consider where the raise came from and the possibility of a re-raise after me.


FLOP:

I would check/call and folded to a raise here. I am not a big fan of check-raising unless I have a bigger kicker than the board and the bet only has one or no callers yet. I would have never 3-bet or even called the raise. You probably can't win, so wait for a better hand.


TURN:

I would have never seen it.


RIVER:

See TURN comments.


PS: you never had a draw anyway. I never consider a runner/runner flush a draw, unless you want to loose money. It can be considered an out at times, but only a second or third draw. IMO, you should have folded on the flop.

Hi David,


Preflop. Depending on the nature of the preflop raiser, and also the callers, I might lay this down. A lot of players in lowlimit are very tight when it comes to raising, some might only raise with AA and KK. If it is one of these players, I would hardly ever play for a raise, knowing that I had a lot of catching up to do. You also have to consider that the other players in the pot coldcalled two bets, if they are reasonable players, their hands stand to be a lot better than average. Not knowing the raiser, I think it is proabably a borderline call from the small blind at best.


On the flop, given that the two cold callers, who probably have better than average hands, bet and raised here, I think that you are done with this hand, proably the worst hand that you cold expect to be up against right now is KQ suited.


If it turns out that you would have won this hand, because the coldcallers showdown weaker hands then that, you have to like your situation here, because you now know that you have weaker opponents to your right who have loose standards for coldcalling, and if you make a big hand, you are really going to be able to punish them.


Good luck,

Play well,

Bob T.

Preflop: Very marginal, IMO. OK if you play well enough post-flop to recognize a marginal/bad situation and get out when the flop looks OK but in reality stinks.


For you, I guess that means fold pre-flop.


KJS

Thanks for the comments guy's. As I said I really have a hard time laying it down if I get part of the flop, and in this case I had top pair. It's something I need to work on, and I guess being concious of it is the first step.

"A lot of players in lowlimit are very tight when it comes to raising, some might only raise with AA and KK"


good point but also consider when this happens that your opportunities are greater than average for winning this hand. you have several things going for you.

1. these guys are often ones who can be moved off a scary flop with strong moves.

2. these guys will go to far with their hands a lot (contrary to nuber 1 i know)

3. if you hit you can knowingly check raise them cuse they will bet and your position to do so is perfect because you have the other players trapped between you.

4. you can lay down a marginal hand easier postflop saving a bit of money.

just some idea about how to turn a weak situation into a stronger one. would care to know what others think. (especially those who would agree with me and praise me lol)

tom c.

Speedy's advice is horrible. Your play on this hand was very, very good. I like your thinking on all parts of the hand.

Hey, I can not be right all the time. Besides, I may even learn somthing. /images/smile.gif

“This is only how I would have played it.”


I was not giving advice, only how I would play it. I consider advice as comments from the individuals hosting site and other recognizable great players on this forum. I do however, appreciate the comments. This is why I have been posting, in hope of seeing how my play stacks up with you experts.


Regards