go for the overcall?

[crockpot]

i limp with TT behind a limper at UB 2/4. two limpers behind me plus SB see the flop of J95 rainbow. checked to me, i bet, players behind me call, one in front of me calls. 8 turn is checked around. Q river, no flush possible, first player comes out betting, i...

(by the way, feel free to flame my flop or turn play, but leave the preflop limp alone, it was the right play at this table.)

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
i limp with TT behind a limper at UB 2/4. two limpers behind me plus SB see the flop of J95 rainbow. checked to me, i bet, players behind me call, one in front of me calls. 8 turn is checked around. Q river, no flush possible, first player comes out betting, i...

(by the way, feel free to flame my flop or turn play, but leave the preflop limp alone, it was the right play at this table.)

[/ QUOTE ]


raise preflop /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I guess the turn is the old "bet with no outs, check with outs" thing, so that's good.

so there are 4 people behind you. I think I'd go for the overcalls here, given the fact that you don't have the nuts, and that they all called the flop. sometimes when the turn gets checked through, people get suspicious, and will call. I'll especially do this if the players are calling stations. if they are tight'ish then calling has less value.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
i limp with TT behind a limper at UB 2/4. two limpers behind me plus SB see the flop of J95 rainbow. checked to me, i bet, players behind me call, one in front of me calls. 8 turn is checked around. Q river, no flush possible, first player comes out betting, i...

(by the way, feel free to flame my flop or turn play, but leave the preflop limp alone, it was the right play at this table.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I would almost definitely have bet the turn. I think it's a superior play here, given the fact that nobody has told you that you're behind and that you have 8 outs if you are.

On the river, I go for the overcall every time. With many players to act behind you, this is a standard play. You're chopping w/ EP a good chunk of the time, so you should try to share the overcallers' money.

EDIT: Didn't realize there were more than 3 players for the river bet. Edited to reflect that oversight.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I would almost definitely have bet the turn. I think it's a superior play here, given the fact that nobody has told you that you're behind and that you have 8 outs if you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

well I think the outs are a reason to check the turn. I don't really understand that whole concept too well, but I think this is the place to apply it. basically, you don't want to bet the turn, because if you get raised, you KNOW you are behind, but you still have to call because you have 4, or maybe, outs. this costs him 2 BB on the turn, whereas if he checks, he can call for one bet and hopefully induce a bluff from one of the many players behind him. now he can reassess the situation on the river

[Alobar]

Raise pre flop /images/graemlins/smile.gif (I'm curious as to why you think this was the right play at this table)

I think if you're going to bet the flop you need to bet this turn.

River I definately go for the overcalls. A raise is only going to get called by someone holding a ten and then its getting chopped, give someone else a chance to call with a worse hand.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would almost definitely have bet the turn. I think it's a superior play here, given the fact that nobody has told you that you're behind and that you have 8 outs if you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

well I think the outs are a reason to check the turn. I don't really understand that whole concept too well, but I think this is the place to apply it. basically, you don't want to bet the turn, because if you get raised, you KNOW you are behind, but you still have to call because you have 4, or maybe, outs. this costs him 2 BB on the turn, whereas if he checks, he can call for one bet and hopefully induce a bluff from one of the many players behind him. now he can reassess the situation on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

But there's a decent chance that he's ahead and his hand is very vulnerable to free cards. I don't think the "check with outs" concept applies here, since he has a made hand that could very well be best, in addition to the 8-outer. I'm definitely trying to eliminate live aces and kings in this spot.

[me454555]

The "check w/outs" concept refers to a situation in which the turn card makes a hand that beats you but you have the outs to go for the redraw. (Ex. You flopped 3 of a kind and the turn brought the 3rd suited card) Since there were no obvious draws on the flop, and you have 2 tens, a Q is unlikely to have made someones hand.

[sthief09]

the chance that someone has a pair of J's or Q's isn't good enough?

(this isn't a rhetorical question... I'm honestly curious, because I don't understand this concept well at all)

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
the chance that someone has a pair of J's or Q's isn't good enough?

(this isn't a rhetorical question... I'm honestly curious, because I don't understand this concept well at all)

[/ QUOTE ]

a pair of queens or jacks raises pre flop. If someone has the jack they most likely raise it on the flop unless their kicker sucks or they are just a passive calling station (which is very very likely given the situation) but I don't think they are raising when the straight draw hits on the turn.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
the chance that someone has a pair of J's or Q's isn't good enough?

(this isn't a rhetorical question... I'm honestly curious, because I don't understand this concept well at all)

[/ QUOTE ]

The Q came on the river. An 8 came on the turn. Hero still has second pair, but now he has an open-ender. I say bet.

[me454555]

[ QUOTE ]
the chance that someone has a pair of J's or Q's isn't good enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

The chance that someone has a J or a Q is the exact reason I want to bet here.

When the turn gets checked to me the pot is 4BBs. If I'm behind right now, I want to give myself as many outs as possible. By betting the turn I can hopefully fold hands that would give me problems if a T hit the board such as a Q or a 7. By doing this, if somoene holds a J, I now have 2 more outs to draw to.

There's also a very good chance that I'm ahead given the fact that no one has shown any aggression telling me that they have made TP. So this bet is also a value bet.