Anything to learn from watching good/great players online?

[Gomez22]

I had some comments/questions about a player on UB named Spirit Rock that usually plays 3 NL $50.00 BB tables the other day because someone here mentioned him. I watcjed him played a little tonight, and I can't understand it.

Let me analogize here.... I taught guitar for 2 years back in high school, had the band, all that jazz. For me, I could see EVERYTHING a guitar player was doing in concert because I knew what to look for in the way they play. For the past 3 years, we've went to see Trabs-Siberian Orchestra (If you ever get the chance... GO!) and my fiance remarked last year how she couldn't figure how Alex Skolnick(then lead-guitarist) did what he did.... to quote her: "His hands just looked like a flurry, but a beautiful flurry". I told her you just have to know what's what. That was the end of the discussion....

I believe this relates to poker, but in the case of Spirit Rock, I haven't got a clue... this guy is unbelievable in the way he plays... I've never seen him make a bad play. Maybe some calls against a short stack, but when he puts his balls out there, he's got the goods, and they all call him down like the fish at micro-limits do.

I saw him take out Hellmuth & dill pickle(Is pickle Johnnie Chan, or Mike Matusow?) like they were standing still, and he's now at 2 tables with 35 grand on 1 nad 15 grand on the other....

What should I look for, or try to catch while watching players like this???

As a sidenote, he told one of his friens that he's playing the WSOP this year, the main event.....

'Mez

[jdl22]

Sorry, he started with the $50 buy in and now has $35000. Did I not understand what you were saying or does he have 700x the buy in?!?!

[_And1_]

u didnt understand it, it was 50$ Big blind, ie buy in 5000, 5k, 5 grand and so on, so he got 7 x the buy in...

Still a nice profit /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Non_Comformist]

He cleaned the one table out and finish at 43K

Is the max buy in $5k? Is that possible?

[jdl22]

That's quite helpful. Thought I lost it there for a second, and I was right.

[Non_Comformist]

Yeah make that 58K

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
He cleaned the one table out and finish at 43K

Is the max buy in $5k? Is that possible?

[/ QUOTE ]

The maximum buy-in is $5,000 dollars and I see people in that game with $40K+ on a regular basis. You don't get to see how much they lost before they got to $40K, though.

SpaceAce

[thenextguy]

I didn't even know UB had a $50 blind NL game. That's pretty cool. What other NL games do they have?

[NaobisDad]

I watch those tables myself from time to time. Although it's probably too advanced for me ít's fun to see great players.

A little more insight into who's who would be greatly appreciated though. I can imagine that most of these players are somehow known, considering the ammounts they play for. Does any one know??

I didn't know that these tables were 5000 max. Everytime I have watched these there were no stacks under 10000. Amazing.

[JamesPatrick]

I can't imagine learning a whole lot from watching these tables because we rarely see the cards they're holding. We can't know how many times they had the best of it and folded, when they should have raised, when they should have checked, etc..

I think the most interesting thing to know about a player is when and with what cards they fold. I don't learn much by watching someone win a showdown because they obviously have the best of it. But if I could only see the cards they fold under X circumstance....

A great player is one who maximizes their gains and minimizes their loses. Just watching a table, we have no access to how they minimize their loses. We're missing half the equation.

[Gomez22]

That was my thought early on, but one would think there has to be something that's of relative value there. Either these players are morons, or they have more where-withall than 95% of us at this forum to play in such big games.

I agree with the cards up statement, but on the other hand, I also saw alot of "table image" palys last night (most by Spirit Rock, although I DID see him push a couple what I thought were edges too far and get called down with marginal hands with him being the loser).

Maybe it's more a question of betting patterns with games like this? Who knows, but it is kinda fun to watch.

[tedtodd]

i saw him playing last night too- i couldn't believe it- he just steam-rolled people. it was amazing- i believe you can only enter that table wtih $5000 max, so he made 6x his money....
i couldn't believe it- i dont know whether he gets expert reads on people- or if he's a master statician???
certainly something to aspire towards!

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
(most by Spirit Rock, although I DID see him push a couple what I thought were edges too far and get called down with marginal hands with him being the loser).

[/ QUOTE ]

How big were those pots? Normally he'll do that a lot w/ relatively small pots and then way overbet the pot w/ the nuts in big pots.

[Gomez22]

1 pot was around $5000 or so (he had ~$38000 at the time, I believe)..... the rest were pretty small that were mostly checked through flop and turn, then he'd bet ~pot on river, and get called by better hands.

I think I saw this happen maybe 3-6 times, and it might have cost him maybe 7-9 thousand, but he more than made up for that in big pots... The 1 him and Matusow played was unbelievable...

Spirit Rock raise PF to about $225, dill pickle called, flop came Ace, Seven, and a brick, all rainbow. Spirit Rock bet the pot, pickle called.

Turn was a brick. Both checked.

River was another blank... Spirit Rock bet pot again, Matusow pushed all-in (around $10000, I think) and Spirit Rock called.

Mautsow had pocket 7's

Spirit Rock had pocket aces....

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
and it might have cost him maybe 7-9 thousand, but he more than made up for that in big pots...

[/ QUOTE ]

But it didn't really cost him 7-9 thousand. A number of hands like that he bluffs on the river and nobody calls. So, you need to take into account all of his river bets w/ very little. More importantly, those bets make it easier for him to get calls when he bets $5000 on the river when he has the nuts. I doubt that works much against the pros/regulars in that game, but the guys who come by to take a shot w/ one buyin tend to make some very bad calls against him.

[ QUOTE ]
The 1 him and Matusow played was unbelievable...

[/ QUOTE ]

What was unbelievable? Two guys flop a set on a non-scary board and by the end, all the money ended up in the middle. What else would you expect?

[Gomez22]

Once again, after playing a little this afternoon, I wiggled over to UB to watch some Big Bet poker, and of course, Spirit Rock was at it again. Played HU against a player by the name of Alexias, and was beating him/her badly... SR had about 15 grand in chip, Alixias had about $3000... everytime alexias raised the flop on a scary board (monotone, 2-suited, straight possibilities, etc.), SR pushed all-in, and ALexias folded.....

The table ahs now filled and Alexias is trying to get SR to play a ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLAR freezeout, which I think should be called bull-$hit, but SR's all questions now - wants to know Alexias's real identity and wants to know where they can play online for that much... UB doesn't have NL HU rooms with blinds bigger than $.25/$.50....

Pretty interesting, if you ask me.

[Gomez22]

[ QUOTE ]
What was unbelievable? Two guys flop a set on a non-scary board and by the end, all the money ended up in the middle. What else would you expect?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK... first of all, to me, that's alot of money going into the pot, but it was how the hand was played... the turn had no action. It was just surprising to see both with flopped sets after no turn action, that's the main point of it.

[jdl22]

I don't really understand it, but if you watch the WSOP or WPT this happens a lot. There is hardly any action on the turn when it gets down to a few players. People either give up on bluffs or don't mind slowplaying with only 1 card to come.

Maybe one of the big bet guys like Limon or Odysseus could help us out.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
OK... first of all, to me, that's alot of money going into the pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's definitely a lot of money. But it isn't really that much money in this game. dill pickle's stack is 200BB. $10k is definitely a nice-sized stack, but not terribly big in a 25-50 game. A $1k stack is a very normal sized stack in the 5-5 game I regularly play in and a $2k stack is not super big. It's all relative.

[ QUOTE ]
but it was how the hand was played... the turn had no action. It was just surprising to see both with flopped sets after no turn action, that's the main point of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got it. Yeah, they were both trapping. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[cornell2005]

anyone think spirit rock breaks 1 million a year?

in the last 2 days in the 3 tables ive seen hes +50,000, +10,000, and +10,000. plus 50,000 last week at stars tournament, and another 40 or so in another stars tournament.
i wonder what an over/under would be

[Hirez]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone think spirit rock breaks 1 million a year?

in the last 2 days in the 3 tables ive seen hes +50,000, +10,000, and +10,000. plus 50,000 last week at stars tournament, and another 40 or so in another stars tournament.
i wonder what an over/under would be

[/ QUOTE ]


he's probably making 3-5x that, I wouldn't be surprised if he's making 10k+ a day. Everytime i goto observe, he's sitting with at least +10k (from 5k max buyins).

[jdl22]

I'm sure this has been asked, but is this guy one of the well known guys we can see on the WPT or WSOP?

I'm sure many people playing 50 bb NL are well known.

[Gomez22]

I've been noticing that many of these hands in BIG bet poker have 1 of 3 results.....

1. They don't make the flop and the PF aggressor is the winner.

2. THey make the flop, but that's it... it's a bet and a fold(s)

3. They go to a showdown, but there's not much betting on the flop & turn. Most of the time, it's a small bet on the flop, a call, a checked through turn, then either a checked-through river, or a bet & fold/call... very rarely a raise.




I just witnessed a big laydown that I thought was really huge in the $50 big blind NLHE game, and I'd like some of the better players to tell me if I'm right here in my analysis:

UB $50 BB NLHE - 8 Handed

UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2($7609) raises to $175, CO folds, button folds, SB folds, BB($17841.50) calls.

FLOP($375): A /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, MP2 checks.

TURN($375): 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB bets $200, MP2 calls.

RIVER($775): K /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB bets $500, MP2 raises to $2275, BB folds.

Now.... I know what BB had, because they showed, but I would like to know what anyone else here thinks. I'll post the results and my thoughts in a reply to this, but please don't read until you've thought about it...

[Gomez22]

OK..... In the hand in question, the BB folded on the river, showing K /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for the rivered set.

Was this a case/instance of the BB made a read based on the river raise by MP2? I thought that in this case, alot of worse hands would call, but only a better hand will raise with the flush draw out there, and 3 to broadway. BUT!! (yes, there's always a but...) In this case, the BB had not showed any aggression until the river. Now this makes me think that either MP2 played him off his hand, or had the flush..... which, I can't decide, but I lean more towards something like AsJs or As10s for MP2. I guess pocket aces, queens, fives, or sevens would be a possibility, also...... Maybe even AK, but I thought it was a HUGE laydown

Thoughts on my thoughts?

[BradleyT]

That was a huge laydown. I was watching that hand also. Later on SR says, "Have to lay that down to the nut flush".

I don't think I could have possibly layed that hand down.