I hate calling raises with 86o.

[balkii]

Party Poker 3/6

This hand is pretty standard for me, I am wondering what you guys think about situations like these. Comments on all streets would be helpful.

I have the 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the SB. EP, MP, and the button limp. I complete, BB raises, all call.

I dont always complete here. Just depends on my mood and the table. Anyone not complete, or fold when raised back?

Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet, BB(PFR) calls, EP calls, MP and button fold.

Top pair is good enough for me. My position relative to the PFR makes checkraising a dubious play. Also lets me know more about his hands, Most wont raise AK in this spot.


Turn is T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet, PFR calls, EP folds.

Still going. Ten doesnt bother me.

River J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check.

River check is obvious play, with no read I am not gonna hope he calls with A-high.


How does it look?

[JTG51]

With the 1 chip/3 chip blind structure, I'm usually folding preflop. After that I think you played it just fine.

[Homer]

Preflop, dump it in the 1/3 blind structure. Postflop, you played it well. Many players would not bet out on the flop there.

[Alobar]

fold that trash pre flop, after that it looks ok. Altho I disagree that most players wouldn't raise AK in that spot. What would you have done if he had raised?

[balkii]

Ok I am glad its unanimous to fold preflop. I will fold there more. Sometimes i play too loose in the SB. I read too many Clarkmeister posts.

Alobar, If i got raised I would call and lead a blank turn and most likely fold to further aggression.


If you like results he checked behind on the river with AQo and MHWG.

[Trix]

I would complete if SB was 2/3, with less I fold.
I´ll also fold after BB raises and it gets back to me if I completed.

[spamuell]

Agree with the pre-flop comments.

Call me a LAG if you want but I'd have bet the river. He looks like he has overcards rather than an overpair and he'll check through with these but might call with A-high. Do you not think most opponents will call here with AK? If I think he'll fold AK then I check as well.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I am glad its unanimous to fold preflop. I will fold there more. Sometimes i play too loose in the SB. I read too many Clarkmeister posts.




[/ QUOTE ]

My SB advice is almost always for a 1/2 structure and never for a 1/3 structure. Big difference.

[crockpot]

i don't think this preflop call is automatic with the 1/3 blinds, nor do i think you should automatically call the raise. remember, calling a raise here is not the same as completing the blind (in a 1/2 SB:BB ratio game), because although your current pot odds are the same, your implied odds are worse, and the BB has represented a big hand; most playeres will raise fewer hands out of BB than in other positions.

[Clarkmeister]

"because although your current pot odds are the same, your implied odds are worse,"

This is such a critical concept and so few people understand it.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think this preflop call is automatic with the 1/3 blinds, nor do i think you should automatically call the raise. remember, calling a raise here is not the same as completing the blind (in a 1/2 SB:BB ratio game), because although your current pot odds are the same, your implied odds are worse, and the BB has represented a big hand; most playeres will raise fewer hands out of BB than in other positions.

[/ QUOTE ]

The original call in the SB is far from automatic for me, and so is calling the raise. When I first started playing 3/6 I definitely paid a lot of attention to SB play because it is much different from the 2:1 structure. Recently I have started to loosen up in that spot and I do think its a mistake. I wont call here again.

I do understand the concept of the pot odds vs implied odds in the SB, this is of course most obvious in a 3:2 blind structure, where it will be correct to play any 2 in the SB but frequently you will have to fold if the BB were to raise.

But I would like to know how low would you go in the SB with the 3 (or was it 2?) limpers? Is 87o a call? T8o?
How many limpers would it take for you to complete with the 86o? All of this assuming the 3:1 blind structure....

[balkii]

An argument can certainly be made for betting the river. Its pretty close either way however, and I'd prefer to know for sure that he's capable of calling with just overcards here before betting.