Wild games, variance and losing streak

Pretty much just venting, nothing more, but hear me out:


Playing a game recently with texture that cycles from passive to extremely wild times, often changing by the hour but always loose.


The last week has seen me weather some tough losses strong enough to cut my 170 hour 1BB/hr winning rate down to .5B/hr. Yuck. I sit at that darn table with half or more that see the flop (often 7+ see the flop), and watch a straddle go in every third hand or so and it's soooooo hard to not want to sit and play as long as I can stay alert. The guy that lost 200 big bets in one session last week is to my right, filling up racks literally faster than the runner can bring them. I haven't seen him fail to take a flop yet, and he's not alone.


However, the variance is quite discouraging when the cards don't cooperate and I wonder if I'd be better suited to play a more "standard" but still soft game (there are plenty around). I can definitely say that watching random hands take down huge pots over and over again at that game is taking it's toll on my discipline, as I found myself limping last night UTG+1 with KJo hoping "well, let's see what happens." Doh! A few rounds later when I flop a set on my button I can't make it stand up, blah blah blah waa waa waa.


Words of wisdom and/or encouragement?

Where are you playing?


I'm playing 1/2 PP and have experienced a terrible run of bad beats. I mean really bad. Still ahead, but it got so bad that I was considering dropping the game!


Seems like David Ross has expierienced the same thing at 2/4 on PP.


Myself I've cashed out my winnings and left a small amount in the account to build up. Now I'm playing on lower limits and for fun on Pokerstars. So, I'm playing where I can expect this "wacky" playing from my opponents! No surprises, easy laydowns of AA, or even AA trips. And boy can you extract value -- even with top pair no kicker - my oh my.


So, when my mind is better and my bankroll is built up a little more, then I'm heading back. But it may be at a different place than PP.


Last night over 100 hand session, 4% win rate, 19% of flops seen and 21% win of the flops seen. I've never seen a session like that. Luckily I was playing with some bad players and managed to make 4 BB on the session -- only because I made correct laydowns and had some crazy, crazy chasers. At a higher limit, I would have been way down as there would have been no chasers and the laydowns would have very difficult as the players are stronger.


Maybe some group therapy, I'll pitch in!

I have problems with tables that feature 9 clueless weak players.


For me, 2 weak players are enough. Five is pushing my threshold. More than this and you are just trying to flop good draws and flop sets.


If you are on a full-fishy table and you are playing a lot of KQo and AJo, then this is what's causing your problem.

There are quite a few in Dallas but this place is by far the wildest. I wouldn't be surprised if the wildest 3-6 in the world was played there ... about a month ago there would be a straddle every hand, usually a double straddle and quite a few times a quadruple straddle in a 4-8 game.


Done the math on that one yet? Yep, it costs a minimum of $32 to see the flop in a 4-8 game that has a quadruple straddle on the table. That much wild gambling and you're gonna get a couple raises easy, so look to spend at least $40 to see the flop. We were playing whites that night ($1 chips) and I GUARANTEE you've never seen such a huge pile of chips in the center of each pot. /images/smile.gif


This place allows straddles from any seat except the blinds which is interesting, and they also allow you to "all-in straddle" which you see a few times a night. Wild, wacky stuff.

I suppose you're right - but I do it anyway. AFAIK, those hands are well-playable when the table is passive and under certain conditions (i.e. Mid to LP for cheap) but not when it's getting capped before the flop.


Anyhow, when the game gets super wild I've got better things to do than wait hours for the occasional AA-JJ, AKo or AK-AQs and only have it miss. Jeez, if I was only looking for money I'd simply get a second job instead ... poker is supposed to be fun but in these games it's hard to play any reasonably decent % of hands and still maintain a +EV. I enjoy winning, but for me to want to play poker it's going to be a combination of winning money AND getting to play a fair number of hands.

Sounds like the lack of breadth in playing establishments has made me think wacky play was an online phenomenom. Guess not. All I can say is holy crap, that's gambling. May as well play the local lotto.


But if you can play premium hands and hit one early, then it can be a nice profitable game. I would think the key is to figure out when to jump in the pool. I would want to be holding an ace for my early hands so I can ensure my flush is the nut and my pair has a strong kicker.

Big unsuited face cards do not play very well in wild loose games. You cant win a pot with top pair big kicker. I would rather play 89s or 55 under the gun.


So you lost with a set. In a game like this, every time you flop a set and dont fill EXPECT TO LOSE WITH IT! Flushes and straights if possible will almost be in someones hand even if it is a runnner runner or gutshot.


It is still a great game, but you have to play a little different. Just make bigger hands and get paid off.

I love these type of games, but you need to tighten up a bit and be more patient. Aggresive games can be a hardship on your chips, but when they are nice and loose also, one pot can turn it around. Suited connecters, mid and high pairs, Ax suited can make you quite a nice profit. Strong second best hands are going to kill you in any type of game. Hang in there!

Still boring and expensive to wait for starters only to have to chase them in vain...


1) You're on the button and get A9s. Pay a few small bets to see flop, and you flop a 4-flush. 4 more small bets to see the turn, and the board is not paired, turn card is a blank. 4 more bets, now big bets. River comes an ace and you check. Bets fly. There's ten trillion dollars in there and you waver for a moment and decide whether or not to call top pair, medium kicker for 3 big bets. There will be seven people contesting this pot if you call.


2) Same as above, but some random person has posted a live straddle making it 2 small bets to come in.


3) You have 44 on the button and it's 2 bets to you, everyone's in. Your call will not close the betting and you expect it to get popped to your left. You call anyway, and the round is capped. You flop A34 for second set. You call a few bets. Turn is a 5, board is rainbow. Maybe a few people muck. 2 big bets, you call. River is the case 2 (board is now a wheel), no flush possible. You call 2 bets against 2 opponents who both show a 6 with some random card to split it.


Heh, #3 was exactly when I left ... disgustedly after paying those last 2 bets in the vain hope that we would chop. I was stuck 25 big bets after about 6 hours.

"I found myself limping last night UTG+1 with KJo hoping "well, let's see what happens"


in a game like you describe, i would tend to fold this. if it were suited id be likely to come in. offsuit hands goes way down on these types of tables...


sometimes ya just gotta sit and wait...


if your gonna play it, play it late, and be able to drop it.


also....i wouldnt use any deception plays here.


ive sat next to the heater at times...ya gotta wait him out and put minimal in against him. tighten up a little since hell be playing anything AND others are playing it too along with raising...


ive found that once they lose a couple hands, they tend to cool off a little. while everyone else who was trying to keep up with him are rebuying chips.


just some ideas...


b

my brother has too...


he was in a game where they capped all the way blind, preflop...meaning they all had 12BB in front of them as the hands were dealt and werent looking til the end.


wanna talk about a lottery game?


b

online fake money games...


there usually always capped. its where i came up with my way of playing them. but it cost so much that i hate em and avoid em whenever i can. i also dont like to sit for 4 hours waiting for premium. only to get it cracked...though that is a great way to play it. so i experimented on the fake tables...its a little slower, and after awhile youll be capping just to speed it up. thats the only real use ive found as far as using a full game, fake money table for practice...


or better yet....here's a great idea...on paradise they have a raise/fold table..fake money, usually at the bottom of the list of tables...try that one out and see what you can come up with...


b

Gomez,


It is the same as the proverbial "cash out curse" in on-line poker. You posted you had made it to 1 BB per hour and the Poker Gods exacted their revenge. Be careful, they will not stop until you are at a minus 1 BB/hr average.


Just get the pain and humiliation out in as few sittings as possible is my advice. An all nighter or two playing 8/3 offsuit UTG ought to do it.


You may make pennance with a tribute to me on behalf of the poker Gods and save yourself the anger and frustration. I do accept all forms of payment and nearly guarantee results.


Better Luck,


Jimbo

Yeah the swings are wild, but if you hit one of those hands you show a profit. If you hit all three, your the one cashing in with several racks.

MOVE TO CLEVLAND TO PLAY!

what, cleveland to boring for you? so are the card games. while on a previous post i said they fluctuate i realize that they fluctuate from loose passive to loose really really really passive. i had guys giving me dirty looks when i three bet the flop. you know what they did? they stopped betting into or raising me w/o the nuts (at least the ones uner 74 did, the 75 and older crowd had to be woken up to push their chips in so they didnt notice the three bet on the flop) but as they said in hfapp, loose passive games are the way to go.

of course after my first bad losing session i willl be singing a different tune

g l

tom c.