SS vs. InternetTexasHoldem.com tournament?

[bdk3clash]

A friend of mine who is a regular on the InternetTexasHoldem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com/) forum (http://www.internettexasholdem.com/phpbb2/index.php?sid=4e485133bdd8ea800040220caeaea742) and I thought it would be fun to hold a 2+2 Small Stakes vs. InternetTexasHoldem.com tournament.

Do any of the online poker sites host private tournaments? UltimateBet is out of the question, after their spectacular botching of the most recent BOSS tournament.

Is there any interest here? I was thinking $20+2, probably NLHE. Other than that, I guess I'm open to suggestions as to format, etc.

[BugsBunny]

If it's the SS forum then it should probably be limit /images/graemlins/smile.gif since that's what the SS forum is really about.

As far as sites go try Paradise. Not sure, but it's a possibility. Stars has put all private tourneys on temp hold except for prior commitments - they've been overwhelmed by requests and want to figure out how to handle it proceduraly, from what they told me at least.

If Paradise won't do it then you may have to try some of the smaller sites like pokerroom (current location of HULA). You may want to touch base with Mike Haven.

And yes, I'd probably be interested.

[The Bear]

I'm in. I would much prefer a NL tourney, but I'd play limit also. After spending 5 minutes on the InternetTexasHoldem forum, I imagine 2+2 is going to have to play with some sort of handicap.

[Tosh]

Sounds fun if its no limit.

[colgin]

While I prefer NL tourneys myself, I tend to agree with Bugs that if it is for SS posters, limit makes more sense. In either case, count me in.

Colgin

[arkady]

I got VIP status at Absolute Poker and can host a tournament there.

[bdk3clash]

Ladies:

AbsolutePoker is looking good. (I have no idea how their software is--I'll download the client and poke around after work. Comments?)

AbsolutePoker offers a 20% first deposit bonus, and a refer-a-friend bonus on top of that. $15 goes to the referred player, $25 to the referrer. I guess I'll leave that whole deal up to individuals to work out over PM or whatever.

"VIP members" can host tournaments. Arkady has stepped up and offered to set this up, though I'm not sure what that means on his end.

I don't know how large/active the userbase on InternetTexasHoldem.com is, but tentatively I'm thinking something like 20 on 20. I doubt we'd have trouble getting that many posters to participate, but others may know better.

Thoughts?

[JDErickson]

Unfortunately I think VIP members can only setup single table tourneys on AP. I just obtained VIP status and was checking it out.

Jim

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately I think VIP members can only setup single table tourneys on AP. I just obtained VIP status and was checking it out.

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

D'oh. I'll e-mail AbsolutePoker support (they've been very responsive, BTW) to confirm this.

Any other suggested sites?

[spamuell]

After spending 5 minutes on the InternetTexasHoldem forum, I imagine 2+2 is going to have to play with some sort of handicap.

Agreed. Look at some of the following advice:

(In response to a player raising a flop which 5 players have seen:)

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what it is recently, but anyone on a flush draw at my tables has been raising the flops. It has literally become automatic... he really only had 9 outs. He loses that more often than he wins, but yet he continues to raise. Baffling.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Dealt AJ in MP. I call, SB calls, BB checks. Everyone else folded.
Flop is is 9TJ. SB bets, BB raises.

Replies:

"it is a fold"
"My gut instinct tells me that either you are beat"
"I think you have to fold here"


[/ QUOTE ]

No mention of serious pre-flop error, position, suitedness of board, never mind player/table reads.

There are a plethora of other posts like this, it would be too easy for SS.

[bdk3clash]

<snip>...

[ QUOTE ]
it would be too easy for SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. That's why I want to do it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fluff]

For cripes sake, I'll have to start advertising that forum!!

[JohnShaft]

I'd most likely be interested but only if it was No Limit.
After the last BOSS Tourney ("OMG! This is LIMIT?!?") I vowed never to play a Limit Tourney again.
Sure I'm a limit grinder like the rest of you, but in Tournies I prefer not to have to catch half a deck of cards in the first hour or be gone.

[bdk3clash]

A rep from AbsolutePoker e-mailed me and says that he thinks they can do this. He even mentioned possibly adding prize money.

This just might be a go. I'll continue to try to get this set up.

Does anyone have a creative name for this tournament? How about a suggested day of the week/time? It's too early to think of a specific date, I guess.

To recap, what's taking shape:

-No limit hold'em tournament, featuring 20 members of the 2+2 Small Stakes forum and 20 members of the InternetTexasHoldem.com forum.
-Hosted at AbsolutePoker, which provides a 20% initial deposit bonus and a $15 refer-a-friend bonus. (So $25 deposit + $5 depost bonus + $15 refer-a-friend bonus=$45)

All of this is still very, very tentative, of course.

How should the final score be calculated? If we can tweak the payouts, how should those go?

[ammbo]

[ QUOTE ]
<snip>...

[ QUOTE ]
it would be too easy for SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. That's why I want to do it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I am that friend, and I will have to rally the troops to march upon 2+2! I know I can get 20 people, let's set a date, bdk.

I started a thread at ITH here (http://www.internettexasholdem.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=20150#20150), so follow along. We'll get the players, just set a date.

[Brian Clark]

[ QUOTE ]
After spending 5 minutes on the InternetTexasHoldem forum, I imagine 2+2 is going to have to play with some sort of handicap.

Agreed. Look at some of the following advice:

(In response to a player raising a flop which 5 players have seen:)

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what it is recently, but anyone on a flush draw at my tables has been raising the flops. It has literally become automatic... he really only had 9 outs. He loses that more often than he wins, but yet he continues to raise. Baffling.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Dealt AJ in MP. I call, SB calls, BB checks. Everyone else folded.
Flop is is 9TJ. SB bets, BB raises.

Replies:

"it is a fold"
"My gut instinct tells me that either you are beat"
"I think you have to fold here"


[/ QUOTE ]

No mention of serious pre-flop error, position, suitedness of board, never mind player/table reads.

There are a plethora of other posts like this, it would be too easy for SS.

[/ QUOTE ]


Keep thinking like that and you are already beat!

I look forward to this event and believe that ITH will pull an upset -- especially if it is a limit tournament.

[Bob T.]

If it is on a sunday, or monday, I would play.

Bob T.

[GuyOnTilt]

If it's limit, I'd play if you really needed an extra body.

GoT

[bdk3clash]

I / we need to decide if this is going to be limit or no-limit. Give me a preference and a reason.

I'm truly netural between the two.

[Bob T.]

NL, I like playing NL tournaments more, even if I can go out on the first hand with AA /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[bdk3clash]

Lee Jones, who works for PokerStars, just contacted me to offer to host this tournament on there. Given PokerStars excellent software and reputation, I'm thinking having it on there would be a great idea. AbsolutePoker was nice enough to step up to the plate, and would essentially offer at least $20 in bonuses for each person to sign up, but I think participation-wise PokerStars would be a better choice.

(I also downloaded the AbsolutePoker client and found it to be pretty clunky.)

So, what still needs to be worked out:

-Tournament name ("2+2 Small Stakes forum vs. InternetTexasHoldem.com forum" doesn't really have much zing)
-Tournament format (limit or no-limit)
-Buyin ($20+2 feels right, but suggest away)
-Scoring system (how do we determine the winner?)
-Requested bonus features (bounties, etc.)
-Date/time. I'm thinking a Sunday at 5 PM.

[Bob T.]

If it works out, I would prefer pokerstars regardless of the bonus situation. I already have an account there, and I have confidence in their tournament software.

Bob T.

[Tosh]

$20+2 seems fair.

Most importantly though, the format to be no limit.

As long as its like that I can't say I care about anything else.

[BugsBunny]

Since it's a competition we should probably get some feedback from the other side on what format they prefer (Limit or NL). I'm interested either way but still think limit makes more sense in this particular case.

Edit: Pokerstars is the nuts for tournaments. I prefer them to any other site.

[sfer]

Sounds great. And it'll give me an excuse to open an account at Stars; anyone wanna refer me and pick up a bonus?

I'm away next Sunday and possibly the next two Sundays after that so another day works best for me.

Gotta go NL.

[spamuell]

I'd like to play. Usually I'd mind whether it was limit or NL but against ITH, it should be pretty easy to crush them either way. (Note the lack of an emoticon here.)

A Sunday sounds good but how about at 4PM for those of us on the other side of the Atlantic? Due to the recent time changes here and I think your clocks are changing/have changed soon/recently, I haven't yet quite worked out what the time difference is at the moment, but I'm pretty sure this would be better if it isn't too inconvenient for you guys. Also, I don't know how many from UK/Europe will want to play, if we're in the tiny minority then I guess we'll just have to put up.

I think it's best if the tournament is as soon as you can make it, no point delaying things.

I haven't played in any of the past 2+2 tournaments but is the scoring system from the SS vs Zoo tourneys adaptable?

As for the tournament name, how about a slight change of the old 2+2 = 4 to:

2 + 2 > ITH

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif (if you're reading this).

Thanks for your effort bdk3clash.

[subq]

[ QUOTE ]
After spending 5 minutes on the InternetTexasHoldem forum, I imagine 2+2 is going to have to play with some sort of handicap.

Agreed. Look at some of the following advice:

(In response to a player raising a flop which 5 players have seen:)

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what it is recently, but anyone on a flush draw at my tables has been raising the flops. It has literally become automatic... he really only had 9 outs. He loses that more often than he wins, but yet he continues to raise. Baffling.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Dealt AJ in MP. I call, SB calls, BB checks. Everyone else folded.
Flop is is 9TJ. SB bets, BB raises.

Replies:

"it is a fold"
"My gut instinct tells me that either you are beat"
"I think you have to fold here"


[/ QUOTE ]

No mention of serious pre-flop error, position, suitedness of board, never mind player/table reads.

There are a plethora of other posts like this, it would be too easy for SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can find these sort of posts everywhere. There are some excellent players at ITH. Just as there are some excellent players at 2+2.

[subq]

PS would be the best place IMO.

A few of the really good players at ITH are limit players, however, many play NL tournament.

I personally prefer NL. I happen to read and post at both forums and I don't think there is going to be any "crushing" going on. I believe there are excellent players that participate in both forums.

I am not the "we rule" type player. I am a player about information and study which means participating in multiple forums and websites...at any rate I think a tournament like this would be great fun.

[bdk3clash]

The details regarding the tournament between 2+2's Small Stakes forum and the InternetTexasHoldem.com forum are taking shape.

All of these details are still tentative.

Where/When: PokerStars, Sunday, April 18th, 3:00 Eastern.
Lee Jones of PokerStars stepped up and offered to host. I'll bug him to include extras, such as juicing the prize pool, etc.

Title: "Battle of the Boards: SS vs. ITH"
I'm purposely leaving the actual forum names out of the title. Should they be included?

Format: $20+2, no-limit hold'em
If we do this again, maybe we can do limit next time. No limit seems to be the default and consensus format.

The tournament will have an equal number of players on each side. Registration will be password-protected, and ammbo (ITH goon) and I will (theoretically) make sure an equal number of players register from each side.

Comments and suggestions are appreciated.

What scoring system should be used to determine the winner?

[subq]

bdk3clash,

See reply to your crosspost, April 18th won't work because the monthly ITH tournament is on that date.

[bdk3clash]

Update:

Let's make it April 25th.

[sfer]

Late afternoon? Cool. I'll make sure to be back and freshly jet lagged so everyone can take shots at me.

[ammbo]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played in any of the past 2+2 tournaments but is the scoring system from the SS vs Zoo tourneys adaptable?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not familiar with this system, but fill us in. It should be fine.

[bdk3clash]

Can someone post a link to, or propose, a scoring system? Perhaps the one used in the Zoo vs. SS tournament from a while back?

[Joe Tall]

Looking over the advice in the Hand History section, I think if we played Go Fish, we would win. If I'm availible, I'd love to play.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[BigEndian]

I'll be flying in on the red-eye that morning from Vegas - I'll catch the next one. I might be conscious enough to cheer on the sideline though.

- Jim

[bdk3clash]

I really need to see a scoring system for a tournament with an equal number of entrants from two teams to determine a team winner.

Any help out there? I've searched the archives with no success.

[tripdad]

i just came off of ITH forum. hand examples section, where a guy flops the stone cold nuts(A high straight). the flop gets capped. the turn may have made a smaller straight. he gets 3 callers on the turn. the river is a blank. no 3 flushes and board is not paired.

he checks the river! his reasoning is that "he could not be called by a worse hand". at least 3 replies state that he played this hand well!

cheers!

[subq]

a couple things

first, you should post a link instead of just making statements

second, I don't think this whole thing is a pissing match

not much room for a pissing match in the game of poker, it's not like a physical sport or solved game

[cold_cash]

Oh yeah??

You want to say that to my face??? I'll play you heads up right now at any limit you want. Come on. Chicken.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[subq]

and that would prove what?

I guess Moneymaker is the best poker player in the world, better yet, I guess the people that kick his a$$ on PokerStars are better than Farha, or at the very least Moneymaker is better than Farha since he beat him heads up. :P

[Bob T.]

You could score it as as twenty separate matches. So the first person out from one side, compares to the first out from the other side, with the longest lasting getting one point, and the side that wins the most matches, winning the overall.

Or you could assign points to each place, 40th recieves 1 pt. 39th 2 pts, etc, maybe for the last 10 places, have the increment be 2 pts per place, and maybe First could get a three point increment.

Just a couple of ideas.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[subq]

I think the biggest issue is that there will be a mismatch (more players from one side than the other). The scoring may have to be adjusted and/or weighted...not sure how that would work.

[bdk3clash]

Ammbo and I will ensure that there are an equal number of entrants from both teams, even if that means unregistering players.

[JDErickson]

I'll sign up for the 2+2 team.

Jim

[TheRake]

I'de like to play if you need extra bodies.

Let me know

TheRake

[z32fanatic]

I want to play, what's the password to sign up?

[ammbo]

BDK, let's get a headcount. I am rounding up the ruffians from ITH, but I need to match up their screennames to their alter egos on the forum. It may not be as big as we had hoped, but it will still be good times.

Incidentally, we had our forum tournament today, I placed third. If there are two guys there that can beat ME, then you guys are in trouble! /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I kid, I kid.

[Mike Haven]

For SS vs Zoo vs Toons Tournies we used, say, for a 40 person tourn:

1st 40 + 10 bonus points
2nd 39 + 8 bonus
3rd 38 + 6 bonus
4th 37 + 4 bonus
5th 36 + 2 bonus
6th 35
7th 34
...
39th 2
40th 1 point

1 No Show scored 1 point
2 No Shows scored (1+2)/2 = 1.5 points each
3 No Shows scored (1+2+3)/3 = 2 points each
etc