A Stop n' Go

[tj00]

Party 2/4
Fairly typical game and opponents

In the SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

3 Limpers, I Raise, BB Folds, Limpers Call

Flop: [ Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif ]

I Check, EP Checks, MP Checks, CO Bets, I Call, EP & MP Call

Turn J /images/graemlins/club.gif

I Bet, EP Raises, MP & CO Fold, I 3 Bet, EP Calls

River 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I Bet, EP Calls

[Brian]

Hi tj,

I do not understand why you didn't bet the Flop.

-Brian

[tj00]

I felt like I was behind on that flop. I did not think there was much chance of taking it down unimproved.

[DonWaade]

This is pretty straight forward. Everything looks good. What is the dilemma?

Looks like the villain had a pocket pair 77 or 99

[Nottom]

Where's the stop and go?

[spamuell]

Where's the stop and go?

Pre-flop: Raise
Flop: Check-call
Turn: Bet

Or are you suggesting that it doesn't count as a stop and go because pre-flop and on the flop are such completely different streets that it isn't a stop and go if you raise pre-flop and check call the flop, and that because Hero improved between the flop and turn which led him to bet out, this doesn't constitute a stop-and-go either?

[sthief09]

stop and go =

Flop: check-call
Turn: bet

the play that can, with 100% certainty, cause me to punch a wall


nice playing against you yesterday

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Or are you suggesting that it doesn't count as a stop and go because pre-flop and on the flop are such completely different streets that it isn't a stop and go if you raise pre-flop and check call the flop, and that because Hero improved between the flop and turn which led him to bet out, this doesn't constitute a stop-and-go either?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. IMO a stop and go is usually

Flop: Bet, get raised, and call
Turn: Bet ...

Doesn't really matter what its called I guess. I might bet the flop in this hand some times, might check with it other times, but I think overall this hand was played well.

[tj00]

Sorry if I was too liberal with my terminology. I just thought the hand had an unusual betting pattern. I thought there were other choices to be made. Bet the flop or checkraise the CO's flop bet. Go for a checkraise on the turn.

I also wanted to ask who goes for a river checkraise if something more innocuous falls. Say the 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Stheif09, I must admit I do not remember playing against you. Do you play under a different handle on party?


I guess it is obvious, but EP had a 9 and MHIG.

[Brian]

Hi tj,

You don't bet this Flop because you expect to take it down unimproved, although that will very occasionally happen and you'll be glad that you did. You bet because if you checked, you'd have to call a bet anyways. So what does betting do for you? It potentially cleans up some of your outs, along with a couple of other things such as perhaps adding deception to your hand and the aforementioned taking it down unimproved rarely.

Remember, if you checked, the bet was going into the pot either way. So why not bet? And please, don't say "because I might get raised, thus costing myself another small bet." Getting raised here would be good for your hand. And, it's okay to cost yourself an extra small bet in a large pot if it will sometimes let you win a hand that you otherwise wouldn't have.

-Brian

[scotnt73]

hey brian, when you say cleaning up some of your outs what are you referring to? it looks to me like hes drawing to the nuts so what is there to clean? Im serious, because i check here too and want to understand why that is wrong. thanks.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]

the play that can, with 100% certainty, cause me to punch a wall



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[Brian]

Hi Scotnt,

I am referring to his Ace and King outs. Getting someone with a hand like K8 to fold would be beneficial. Remember, if he checks, he is going to have to call a bet anyways. So why not bet?

-Brian