QQ Online 3/6.

[RocketManJames]

New to table, no reads whatsoever.

QQ on button, I raise it after 2 limpers, both blinds call....5 to flop. Ace-high w/ 2 spades (both cards smaller than Q), checks to me, I bet, All 4 opponents call... turn is a low card now 2 spades, 2 hearts, checks to CO who now bets out.

Your move? Results Later.

-RMJ

[T5off]

I'd fold in low limit every time. There is always someone with an A who's not going to fold to your raise. Since calling makes no sense, fold.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold in low limit every time. There is always someone with an A who's not going to fold to your raise. Since calling makes no sense, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you crazy?
Raise the turn or at least call down.

[citizenkn]

[ QUOTE ]

Are you crazy?
Raise the turn or at least call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

call down? Why? If only one or two opponents stayed in on the flop bet, then you can think that maybe they were on some type of draw, but when everyone stays in the pot on an ace high flop, at least one of them has an ace, and you are chasing a two outer with your queens (and if you're not holding the queen of spades, one of those two outs isn't even clean).

My guess is that the turn gave the CO a pair to his crappy ace kicker, or maybe made a set for his low pocket pair. Either way, I wouldn't put one more penny into that pot.....

[joker122]

I still think a raise or a call down is in order. He could be betting one of the middle or bottom pairs, or a flush draw (hearts or spades). The pot isn't large, but it's not small either. Can another familiar 2+2er back me up here, or am completely wrong?

[TXTiger]

I would fold. As someone else said, with that many callers on the flop in a low limit game someone has the ace. On the very slight chance you are ahead, there are many cards that will beat you one the river. someone will call you down with A5o. Make them pay when you raise with AK. Don't pay them off when they get lucky.

[T5off]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold in low limit every time. There is always someone with an A who's not going to fold to your raise. Since calling makes no sense, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you crazy?
Raise the turn or at least call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

No! QQ was excellent preflop, now it's most likely beaten.
This used to be a leak in my game, somehow holding on the image of that great hand QQ, not believing I would have to fold it to just one bet. Once you have called down to the river often enough only to be shown an A7off, you realize there's a leak.

[webiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
I still think a raise or a call down is in order. He could be betting one of the middle or bottom pairs, or a flush draw (hearts or spades). The pot isn't large, but it's not small either. Can another familiar 2+2er back me up here, or am completely wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Leak!!!

Plug it quick. I recall reading somewhere, it's not about results but maximizing EV. Hero's on a two outer vs. two fl draws and a possible overpair. Get out while it's cheap 'cause he's beaten on the flop.

Cheers

Iggy

[RocketManJames]

Well, seems like it's pretty split what you all would have done. I folded. My fear was not the CO that bet out so much, it was that all my opponents called my flop bet. I figure I was drawing to 2 outs, and maybe even 1 out, if someone was on the flush draw.

The winner was the BB with 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif that flopped 2nd pair and picked up the flush draw on the turn.

I laid down a winner on the turn. C'est la vie.

-RMJ

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
I still think a raise or a call down is in order. He could be betting one of the middle or bottom pairs, or a flush draw (hearts or spades).

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys made me feel stupid. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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The winner was the BB with 9 T that flopped 2nd pair and picked up the flush draw on the turn.

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Flush draw it is!

[Bob T.]

I think that this is a tough spot. The bet out on the turn, is kind of suspicious, but there are so many players left to act, and one of them might be unable to lat go of Ax no matter what.

Maybe three handed, a raise would be in order, but I think you might have too many opponents here.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Nate tha' Great]

Calling down is bad. Folding is okay. But I think I like raising the best if you know the CO to raise light. The pot is big, you represented a big hand before the flop, there's an ace on the board, and nobody has made any noise except for the player immediately in front of you just made a really odd bet. It's hard to get a player at these limits to fold a Ax hand, but this is a spot where you can do it, forcing them to face two big bets cold in a spot where you can credibly represent a monster.

It's not going to work most of the time. But it doesn't need to work most of the time to be +EV. You can *probably* get to a showdown for 2 bets (checking the river through would be fine), and probably don't need to bother seeing a showdown if it costs you more than 2 bets to do so (e.g. if you're 3-bet, then fold).

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still think a raise or a call down is in order. He could be betting one of the middle or bottom pairs, or a flush draw (hearts or spades). The pot isn't large, but it's not small either. Can another familiar 2+2er back me up here, or am completely wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Leak!!!

Plug it quick. I recall reading somewhere, it's not about results but maximizing EV. Hero's on a two outer vs. two fl draws and a possible overpair. Get out while it's cheap 'cause he's beaten on the flop.

Cheers

Iggy

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't need to have the best hand as of the flop to win. He needs to have the best hand as of the showdown. Sometimes you can accomplish that by getting a better hand to fold.

[webiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still think a raise or a call down is in order. He could be betting one of the middle or bottom pairs, or a flush draw (hearts or spades). The pot isn't large, but it's not small either. Can another familiar 2+2er back me up here, or am completely wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Leak!!!

Plug it quick. I recall reading somewhere, it's not about results but maximizing EV. Hero's on a two outer vs. two fl draws and a possible overpair. Get out while it's cheap 'cause he's beaten on the flop.

Cheers

Iggy

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't need to have the best hand as of the flop to win. He needs to have the best hand as of the showdown. Sometimes you can accomplish that by getting a better hand to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but do you know how many times in SShold'em I've had this very hand and got beat by Ax. Ax will not let this hand go no matter what.

[MicroBob]

if no one bets on the flop then the chance that there is an Ax-er out there is decreased. it's still possible, but certainly has to be considered less likely i would think.

but the fact that everyone stayed in on the flop-bet indicates a lot of straight and flush draws and perhaps some lower pairs.
and with this being the case, the 2-suited board is cause for concern since 40% of the unseen cards will give 3 of one suit.


i probably would have raised here out of instinct (multi-tabling and all) but upon further reflection i think folding is a decent play and may be the better play.