2-4 AQo Palms hand

The girlfriend who is just now learning to play poker played this hand last night in The Palms 2-4 game. I think she could have played it differently on every street, but I actually like the line she took. What do you all think?


One EP limper to Heroine. She decides to limp in this time with AcQs. I can testify that this is the first time I have ever seen her limp with this hand, so I'll chalk it up to a variance play. Slightly overaggressive guy in the cutoff raises. He recently tried to move her off of AQo with unimproved J9 and she called him down to take the pot on a TT543 board. Button calls, blinds fold, EP calls. 4 to the flop for 4BBs after rake.


Flop: Qh Ts 5c. EP checks, Heroine bets, Cutoff raises, button calls all-in. EP folds. Heroine calls.


Turn: [Qh Ts 5c] 6d. Heroine check-calls.


River: [Qh Ts 5c 6d] 3c. Heroine checks, cutoff bets, Heroine checkraises. Cutoff calls, and her AQ beats KQ. She also wins the main pot against the all-in button.


Thoughts?

I think the best thing about this play against this opponent is what it does for future hands against this guy. This checkraise on the river is gonna instill a bit of fear in the guy knowing she can play a good hand using a line like this against him. Great Job.


Allan

I'd have probably check-raised the turn and bet out on the river. Later on, I think it will be more beneficial to check the turn and have her opponent check behind her, giving her a free look at the river, rather than checking the river and getting a free showdown. The move will make the opponents wonder, though. If they'll remember the move, it's good, but I would check-raise the turn far more often. Maybe next time she could try to CR the turn and river.

Yes that is the obvious move...to check raise the turn...but given the previous circumstance that this guy is very aggressive (trying to move her off of good hands) this does more for future play. Obviously the checkraise on the river isn't the line to be using most of the time but I think in this instance, against this opponent, it is the better alternative. This guy is gonna have a hard time trying to run over her now that he has seen this and it is possible she may get to showdown some of her more marginal hands for free against this guy, as he may get scared to value bet some of his hands on the river. I think she gains more playing the hand this way than making the obvious play.


Allan

i kinda liked it too. the pre mistake was minor since it did disguised the hand a little. and the all in guy cant hurt her, why not let the guy bet it out for her, then try a raise on the end. she had it head up from the flop on pretty much.


the way she played, it seems she had this planned from the flop on...good thinker, this girl? /images/smile.gif she must have realized the CO had a Q, AK, mid pair etc. and was protecting a little on the flop raise. since hes a looser raiser, you can discount premiums a little here.


but if a K came on the river, then what? ill give her credit to a check call here...


musta been good to see the COs face after the checkraise though...whoooops...


ciao


b

I think Allan has it exactly correct. On the ride home, I discussed this hand at length with her. I think that this hand is a variation on the HPFAP concept of how to play an overpair against someone who shows aggression (she hasn't read HPFAP yet, I started her with Carson's and Jones' books). By waiting until the river, she maximizes her win against the bluffs, and she minimizes her loss against the monsters.


If she checkraises the turn, the bluffs will likely fold, and the better hands will 3-bet. She will rarely get called and paid off. By waiting until the river, she really takes the 3-bet option totally away from the better hands, and has already extracted the max from the worse hands. Also, with one more bet to close the action, some of the worse hands will even put in that extra bet which is way more than they would have invested otherwise.


Also, as Allan said, it should slow him down on future hands. The river checkraise is a powerful weapon.


I'm biased of course, but I thought that in this case against an aggressive player, she really played this one optimally.

"good thinker, this girl?"


She analyzes things way differently than I do (less mathematically inclined), but she is very good in all forms of card games I have played with her. She is an exceptional euchre player, for instance.


"the way she played, it seems she had this planned from the flop on.....but if a K came on the river, then what? ill give her credit to a check call here... "


On the ride home, I drilled her on her thought process during the hand before I gave her my opinion. As you know, making the right play and knowing why it was the right play are two different things.


The three things that she said that stuck me were:


1. "If he reraised me on the river, I would know for sure that I was beat. On the turn, I would still have to call him"


2. "If a King or a Jack came, I could just call since those are bad cards for me."


3. "I knew he'd keep betting for sure."


While I need to work with her on the concept of charging the draws to draw, I don't think that too many total novices would be thinking thoughts like that. It's kind of exciting watching her learn, but its stressful watching her risk money. I get more upset at her beats than mine!


"musta been good to see the COs face after the checkraise though...whoooops.."


He looked at her and said: "You did NOT!" as he called and flipped his hand over. He just smiled and shook his head when he saw her hand.

"She analyzes things way differently than I do "


this will benefit ya both. its always nice to see/hear a different look at something. especially when its face to face.


"It's kind of exciting watching her learn, but its stressful watching her risk money."


isnt that cool!!! most of the guys who want me to show em something, act like they can learn it in a weekend. frustrating as hell. its so cool to see someone actually persuing it, and working at it. sounds like shes already one of the tougher players on the 2-4, if shes thinking like that.


"As you know, making the right play and knowing why it was the right play are two different things"


some on this forum would argue differently that i know this....hahahahaha /images/wink.gif


this gal gotta sister? lol


take it easy...


b

I think I´d raise preflop, because a) there is so little money in the pot that calling 2 bets cold becomes even less attractive for the players behind her, thus making a raise more efficient in forcing out opponents and b) since I only expect two or three opponents (including EP) on the flop the pot-odds wont be that good for the remaining players despite the raise.


Postflop play: Pretty creative, especially the check-raise on river is good (although risky) since cutoff has got no idea where she is since she didn´t raise before the flop and since cutoff wont reraise with anything but TT or QQ. Might also save her bets later on with hands she´d like to check on river out of position since players know now that she will check-raise on river.