pkt 4 hand

2 limpers to me in CO. i have 44...i call knowing at least the BB will call. button also calls along with BB


5 to the flop


flop A 4 7 rainbow


BB bets *pretty str8 forward player probably betting a weak J or a 7, i dont think hes the type to bet a draw here* , EMP calls, i folder, i call, button folds


turn J makes flush draw possible


BB checks, EMP bets, usually id raise here, but i see that BB will fold if i raise, so i take the overcall. im almost sure the EMP has at most is 2 pair, but likely a weak A, so unless a flush card comes or the board pairs, i should be good.


river 8os


BB checks, EMP bets, i raise, BB folds, EMP, suprised, says "what? you got 7-8? i have to call, i wanna see..."


she had A7s, turned flush draw


b

i hit send on accident dammit...sorry


flop was J 4 7


turn K makes flush draw possible


there was no A on board....


thanks


b

I think you've got to raise either the flop or turn. Waiting until the river to raise when the flush could be there is the worst of all strategies.

I agree. At least raise the turn. I would have raised the flop too, I have lost too many flopped sets when I slow play it and get beat. Once by a runner runner queen high flush. If I have more than one opponent, the only set I slow play anymore is top set on a board with absolutely no draws. You did get a few extra bets here with your slow play, but you also heightened the risk of someone sucking out on you by not knocking people out earlier. I guess it just comes down to how much risk you are willing to take with your set.


Tim

maybe you can tell the class where you wouldve lost 1BB with my read, and 2BB in hindsight...


hmmm...


let me explain...


its a relativley safe flop board, ill wait for the turn. only 3 to the turn incl me. making a runner flush draw less likely. i have BB already read for a coulple hands, knowing hell fold if i raise the turn.


on my read: if EMP calls with her *at most 2 pair* she will call the river bet. losing the BB loses me a bet there.


in hindsight: if EMP calls with her draw *she wont reraise here* and misses, she wont call a river bet. = loss of 2 BB


added bonus: if she makes her flush, i save a bet, from if i raised the turn. my turn raise is not going to stop the river card from coming.

nor will it knock out a draw.


however, the flush is only drawing to 7 outs at most here...not 9. also, i have a better draw than the flush draw. so i will lose more than gain, by raising on this particular hand.


now if there were more players in, i definitely wouldve raised the turn. but shorthanded, with these players on this particular hand, and with my read...this is how i chose to play it.


sometimes 'strategy' is more of reading the players than just looking at the board and your own 2 cards.


ill thank TIM for noticing the added bets gained on this hand.


thanks...


b

Bernie,

Sorry, bud, didn't mean to offend. I have just been sucked out on too much when I smooth call a set on the flop, I guess I'm too paranoid as a result.


Tim

i gave ya credit for seeing that i gained chips playing this way...


it wasnt necessarily directed at you, but im getting more flame retardant as i go...haha especially lately


this was not a variance play, this was me adjusting to information from the players during the hand...


i put a pretty black and white analysis on this one as to why i played it this way. also covering other ways of playing it. all in 1 post. oh well...


your bet isnt going to stop the card from coming if they call. so its a matter of how much to extract. while saving if they hit the hand. in this case, someone was betting the flop, AND the turn. and i knew a river bet was coming. if it was checked to me on the turn, i would definitely be betting. same on the river.


tonight i flopped low 2 pair, with a flush draw on the board, 4 way. an EP bet the flop, everyone called. *i was CO* turn the flush hits, its bet and raised before it gets to me. i know the raiser has it, i fold. if the flush card doesnt come, im raising any bet to me, when it does come, i save chips...its a great concept in the loose games section. ive found it to be a win win situation. check it out. works even better when more players are in the pot.


no offense taken...


b


btw...remember your set is a better drawing hand than the flush. the flush can hit and it can hit your hand at the same time. generally you have 10 outs to their 7 going to the river BUT you have a made hand. not a bad spot to be in

Good points.

I forgot about that loose games section in HPFAP that you mentioned but went back and read it and see what you mean...

I played 3/6 today and there were many occasions where I knew I could bet and even raise on the flop with top pair, when there was a flush draw on the board, and the same 3 people who were calling everything all day long were going to call me no matter what I did. So I agree many times there is no way you can protect your hand against these people, although value betting goes way up. It does let you get away from your hand and save an extra bet if the flush card hits on the turn and you know they have it. Plus like it says in the book, if you check or just call the flop, a lot of people will bluff into you on the turn when a blank hits and you can raise and knock the others out.


Tim