How drunk was Phil Gordon?

[Poker blog]

Did anyone else pick up on this?

If he wasn't drunk, then I don't know what can explain his behavior.

[Rushmore]

He was definitely drinking some sort of girly drink, but he didn't strike me as actually DRUNK.

Anyway, I believe the structure was forcing the action, not the booze. THe 6/2 offsuit play was debatable, but I believe he was getting antsy with the blinds climbing and looking at rags for so long.

Bad timing, bad play, whatever. But I don't think he was blotto or anything, like Flack against Jerry Buss.

I sure enjoyed that thing he did to Hellmuth early on, though, with the tourist hand-rankings card.

[Homer]

Anyway, I believe the structure was forcing the action, not the booze.

I only caught the last bit with Gordon heads-up against Juha, but I believe they started with 10,000 chips each with blinds of 25 and 50. This doesn't seem to be forcing the action. Maybe the structure was different in the professional competition earlier on?

-- Homer

[Poker blog]

Anyway, I believe the structure was forcing the action, not the booze.

You might be right, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying he was absolutely wasted, but he was definitely on the other side of tipsy.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
I only caught the last bit with Gordon heads-up against Juha, but I believe they started with 10,000 chips each with blinds of 25 and 50. This doesn't seem to be forcing the action. Maybe the structure was different in the professional competition earlier on?



[/ QUOTE ]

I sort of walked in late, too.

I suppose I had to justify the play somehow, so I assumed the action was being dictated by the structure.

OK. He was drunker than Cooter Brown.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]

I sure enjoyed that thing he did to Hellmuth early on, though, with the tourist hand-rankings card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that was bush-league. He acted like he won that hand with some kind of strategy for the ages. I could have beat Helmuth with that hand, and I wouldn't have rubbed his nose in it. Helmuth was much more professional, for a change. Gordon was acting like the brat, until the Finn took him to the wood shed.

[Poker blog]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was bush-league. He acted like he won that hand with some kind of strategy for the ages. I could have beat Helmuth with that hand, and I wouldn't have rubbed his nose in it. Helmuth was much more professional, for a change. Gordon was acting like the brat, until the Finn took him to the wood shed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree completely, except that he did it to Hellmuth. That made it funny.

[Rushmore]

I agree with everything you say here.

But that doesn't mean it wasn't entertaining, especially vs. Our Man Phil.

P.S. I believe they know each other, have some history, etc. I don't think it's quite as bad as it would have been had they been strangers.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
But that doesn't mean it wasn't entertaining, especially vs. Our Man Phil.


[/ QUOTE ]

What was funny was watching Phil Helmuth struggling to laugh off the cheat-sheet stunt and pretend that it didn't get to him. One of Helmuth's big problems is that he doesn't have a sense of humor. He should have come back with something like, "Gee, Phil, I had one of those cards when I was a kid too." Can you imagine the reaction if Gordon had pulled that on Scotty Ngyuen? Or T.J, or Doyle, or most of the other old pros? I think Gordon would be playing with a handicap in a battle of wits with anyone other than Helmuth.

[Fmonti]

Am I mistaken or wasn't this a repeat show from last year? I'm sure it was. Surprised no one else mentioned it...

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I mistaken or wasn't this a repeat show from last year? I'm sure it was. Surprised no one else mentioned it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Is was a repeat from last year, as will be the show next week. Poker players have short memories. And Helmuth is always an easy target, even in re-run. And Gordon got his butt kicked by the "amateur" from Finland last year, too. I wish I could play that amateurishly.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Is was a repeat from last year, as will be the show next week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually next weeks show is a repeat of the "preview" episode from this year.

[RPatterson]

Yeah the blind structure was still low when Gordon was trying to make crazy plays against Juha.

[cornell2005]

the Aruaba tournament was a sham. I have no clue why they replayed it, it is an embarrassement to UB. I guess not many poeple know about this.

There is a good post on RPG about it, and last night Daniel N. confirmed during a tournament on stars that it was a scam and it was one of the reasons why he broke ties with UB.

The pros wernt getting paid 250,000, so that would explain the strange play.

[Nottom]

Do you have a link to that post?

[daryn]

there is also a bunch of shite on rgp (i assume.. never read that garbage) about how online poker is rigged, the moon landing was faked, and aliens landed in roswell.

rgp = bunk

[cornell2005]

well no its true, i was taling to daniel N last night during a stars tournament. he not only confirmed it, he brought it up

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=20021023045343.08774.00000054%40mb-fg.aol.com&rnum=78&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DUB%2BScam%2Bgroup:rec.gambling.poker% 26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Drec.gambling.poker%26scoring%3Dd%26sta rt%3D70%26sa%3DN

[daryn]

your link shows nothing really. actually, i'm wrong. your link shows a post by mike sexton discrediting the post that supposedly damns ub.

[Nottom]

I don't see anything in that post that really proves anything either. Daniel's posts don't say anything about it being a scam, just that he didn't like the fact that it wasn't open to all pros and he decided not to attend (for undisclosed reasons).

[cornell2005]

yea, this post i guess isnt the most convincing. but it has been widely agreed upon that the 250,000 purse didnt exist, and poeple like daniel N have later confirmed it (although he only hints at it in this post, rather strongly)

one of the best reasons was why would howard lederer choose to play in the amature for 50,000 when supposedly the pros were on a 250,000 free roll?

i guess the most convicing reason is that daniel N (doubleduce on stars) said last night without a doubt it was a scam, and it was the reason why he didnt participate in that event

and mike sexton is part of WPT, what do you expect him to say

[daryn]

daniel is doublesuited isn't he? not "doubleduce". man your "facts" all seem shaky.

[cornell2005]

yes he is doublesuited, got the names mixed up

ok dont believe me, they arnt "my" facts, i dont care. talk to anyone involved back then and they will tell you, or just ask doublesuited next time hes on stars and he wont be shy to talk about it

[cornell2005]

here is a clearly convincing post if you are still interested, from daniel N's forum

http://www.liveactionpoker.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=406e56975c1effff;act=ST;f=22;t=676

[daryn]

ok, i won't believe you

[astroglide]

i don't see any proof

[cornell2005]

haha, well im not trying to prove anything. believe what you want, i was just throwing it out there.

as for proof, what exactly are you looking for? for UB's tax records? not sure how its possible to get any better proof than from one of the 8 pros invited to the event and told the situation directly. if you really are interested just look around the internet for more pros opinions or ask anyone around poker 1 year and a half ago. but it seems like you arnt, so believe what you want

[astroglide]

not sure how its possible to get any better proof than from one of the 8 pros invited to the event and told the situation directly

yeah, i guess it is pretty IMPOSSIBLE to get one of the other SEVEN pros to corroborate the story! what was i thinking?

[cornell2005]

howard lederer

the rest were and are affiliated with UB. besides, this type of non-major scam isnt enough for most to sever their poker industry relationships

have you really looked into this or are you just reacting to the 2 posts shown here?

[astroglide]

i've seen lots of people talk about it, but i haven't been shown anything but rhetoric spouted by danieln.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I sure enjoyed that thing he did to Hellmuth early on, though, with the tourist hand-rankings card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that was bush-league. He acted like he won that hand with some kind of strategy for the ages. I could have beat Helmuth with that hand, and I wouldn't have rubbed his nose in it. Helmuth was much more professional, for a change. Gordon was acting like the brat, until the Finn took him to the wood shed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think theres any problem with having a little fun at the poker table. It makes for good tv and makes everything more fun. Moreover, its easy to take advantage of those who get tilted easily by being a jerk on purpose. Poker is about money, not making friends imo.

[tewall]

I was surprised by Gordon's play too. The stacks were pretty deep for the blind structure, and it was pretty obvious that Juha's main weakness was his willingness to gamble with weak hands. He might have gotten lucky again, like he did against Kathy, but at least Gordon should have gotten his money in with the best of it.

FWIW, I thought Gordon showed a lot of class in getting schooled.

[Poker blog]

[ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I thought Gordon showed a lot of class in getting schooled.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's because he's a happy drunk.

[legend42]

I don't think Gordon was drunk. I think he was trying too hard to posture for his friends, perhaps feeling that simply winning with a patient trapping style wasn't enough, and that he had to push the amateur around, even though that's not really his game.

When Juha took an early lead, Phil seemed to get increasingly desperate, and we all know what that leads to, no matter who you are. And the cards were defintiely running Juha's way.

I do agree that Gordon handled the defeat with much class and appropraite humility.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
the Aruaba tournament was a sham. I have no clue why they replayed it, it is an embarrassement to UB. I guess not many poeple know about this.

There is a good post on RPG about it, and last night Daniel N. confirmed during a tournament on stars that it was a scam and it was one of the reasons why he broke ties with UB.

The pros wernt getting paid 250,000, so that would explain the strange play.

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole thing struck me as weird, but now it makes perfect sense.

The weird pro vs. amateur thing. The weird "some pros playing as amateurs" thing. The nonchalant play at the pro table. Phil not giving a damn when he got beat. The pros drinking froofy drinks at the table. It just didn't add up... until now.

eastbay

[Gamblor]

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