6/12 Routine Hand

[asymmetrical]

6/12 at Mirage

The villian in question: MP was at the same table in almost the same seat the day before. He's probably been in the same seat at the same table for the past 2 months. He looks bored. He looks tired. He looks kind of doughy. He seems weak/tight from watching him before I sat down and then the 2-3 orbits I've been playing. On to the hand:

Folded to MP who raises. MP+1 calls. Hero has K /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif and calls. SB folds, BB completes. 4 to the flop.

Flop:

3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB checks, MP bets, MP+1 folds, Hero raises, BB folds, MP calls.

Turn (3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif) J /images/graemlins/heart.gif
MP bets. Hero?

And then your river plan?

[sthief09]

I'm tempted to pop it again on the turn... but if you get 3-bet, you know you're beat, likely by JJ, but you have to call because of the hearts, so I call. then I raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet unless something scary falls

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

Easy turn raise. If he 3-bets, call and call the river unless you hit your flush. If he just calls, bet the river.

This would be a horrible spot to fold.

[Schaefer]

I lean toward raising the turn then calling a 3-bet and calling the river. However, I think an argument could be made for just calling the turn and river unless you make your flush in which case you raise the river. You have top pair but this stop-and-go maneuver by the villain means there's a good chance you're behind. Too good a hand to fold but maybe not quite stong enough to raise and fade a 3-bet. You only win 2 big bets if you're ahead but you end up losing 4 the other way. Soooo...my new line is the weak tight call-call unless the river is a heart in which I call-raise. Nice hand.

Schaefer

[bicyclekick]

I think a raise is a mistke. His bet to me means his hand is not good enough that he can handle giving a free card (aka something like kk, aa or AQ and not qq or jj cause he would probably try for a checkraise here and if it failed it's not as big of a deal. Call him down and if you improve on the river, raise. If another q falls and he bets again, my first inclination was raise, but i've retracted that into call.

I'm usually a pretty damn aggressive player, but I wouldn't be in this hand.

[asymmetrical]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a raise is a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did, too.

This guy was not raising pre-flop w/o a big pair or AK/AQ.

When I raised on the flop and he didn't 3-bet, I put him on JJ, TT...maybe 99 or AK/AQ

When he bet the turn, I was pretty sure I needed a heart to win this hand. Normally, I'd play aggressively here, but not this guy, and not after the stop-and-go. He was ABC all the way.

I called the turn.

River was K /images/graemlins/club.gif

Well, it wasn't my heart, but I called anyway.

Villian turned over JJ.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy was not raising pre-flop w/o a big pair or AK/AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Back to the preflop action--am I crazy to think you should have laid down KQs here? If big pairs and AK/AQ are the hands he's raising with, you could easily (likely?) be dominated, and to cold-call when the reverse implied odds ("hitting" a hand and paying of a better one) would steer me towards folding.

Then again, if you're much better than your opponents, you can probably outplay them on the later streets. I know I'm not, so I try to have the best hand going in. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I think this cold-call against (what seems to be) a player with pretty high raising standards isn't a good idea. Too weak tight?

Flop raise is standard, him just calling is pretty encouraging. Him betting the turn means he's either testing the waters or has a monster--hard to say which. If he's testing the waters, he might fold to your turn raise. If he's got a monster, he'll 3-bet, which would mean you've charged yourself the maximum for your draw.

I'd just call the turn and call the river unimproved. If the river was a /images/graemlins/heart.gif I'd raise (duh.) Still deciding what I'd do with a river K or a river Q.

[asymmetrical]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This guy was not raising pre-flop w/o a big pair or AK/AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Back to the preflop action--am I crazy to think you should have laid down KQs here? If big pairs and AK/AQ are the hands he's raising with, you could easily (likely?) be dominated, and to cold-call when the reverse implied odds ("hitting" a hand and paying of a better one) would steer me towards folding.


[/ QUOTE ]

As I was posting the results, the same thought crossed my mind briefly: why did I get myself in this situation to start with? It seems weak-tight to lay down KQs to a MP opening raise...but against this guy?

Then again, I think my depiction of villian may have had some revisionist history...at the time my read on him wasn't as good as it was 3 hours later into the session. This was only 2 or 3 orbits in (see original post) and I guess I was still testing the waters.

So valid point...and 3 hours later I may have just mucked.

MAY HAVE... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[sthief09]

I don't really mind calling KQs here. the reason is that someone has already cold-called in before you, and if you cold-call, you're inviting some others. I think their worse hands somewhat pay for teh chance that you're dominated. if this hand wasn't suited there would be no question. if there was no cold-caller it would be no question. but those 2 factors make this a questionable decision rather than a bad one.

personally I stay out of harm's way. I don't like hitting my hand and still taking caution on a safe board, but that's just me. I think a lot of people would call here.