NL .5/1 PS good fold?

[Rob Blackburn]

Haunted by this muck lastnight, I got straight bluffed and it def. put me on tilt afterward. Did I have a position to call this at all? Should I have re-raise rather than call the post-flop bet or moved in on him?

Delt A /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the CO($78).3 Limpers to LP($120) who raises to $4.
I call. All limpers fold. LP and I see flop.
Flop comes 235 all /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
LP bets $8. I call $8.
Turn J /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
LP bets out $16. I fold putting him on flush.
LP shows A /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Any ideas will help. Lay into me if you wish.

[Talex]

Hey Rob,

First off, I probably fold preflop. That said, I'm curious what you thought he had here? He's made a raise preflop with three callers in front of him, which would imply a pretty strong hand assuming no other information about the guy's play. Seems to me there aren't that many possibilities for a made flush here, but those that are (AKd, AQd, maybe KQd) are the nuts or damn near. If he's got the nuts is this how he bets it? It seems far more likely he's got an overpair, a bare Ad, or is making his shot at a bluff.

I think you reraise to maybe 24 here. If he calls you can set him in when a diamond doesn't come on the turn, if he folds you take down the pot, and if he raises then _maybe_ you can get away from the hand. If you're really worried about a bluff reraise then you just shove it in here and be done with it.

-Tim

[CrisBrown]

Hi Rob,

As a general rule, you can lose a lot of money in NL poker by running from monsters under the bed. On this flop, you have to put him to a decision. As others said, I'd raise it to $24 here, and let him fret about whether he likes his hand enough to go broke on it.

Cris

[Scottnyce]

Raise his turn bet, you can't put him on a flush...he bet the pot on the flop, lots of players bet the pot blind after a preflop raise. I would raise the turn and help him make the decison.

[Rob Blackburn]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I probably fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to play A/2345s in the later seats, if I hit the flop hard I usually can get quite a payoff. I would have rather been able to just limp this hand, the player who bluffed me was making $2-$4 raises preflop regularly over the 30min. I had been there.


[ QUOTE ]
That said, I'm curious what you thought he had here? He's made a raise preflop with three callers in front of him, which would imply a pretty strong hand assuming no other information about the guy's play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really felt like he was playing his position and trying to steal the limp bets and the blinds. I really didn't consider what he held at all, I was confident on the steal. Then when he bet so quick with the three /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the board I was sure he had the flush or a naked A. So I called figuring the odds were no diamond would come and he would check to me and I could move in on him. Instead he bet out and I was sure he had a weak flush, which still had me beat so I laid them down.

I see now my big error was flat calling that flop, I should have at least raised him back 2-3x to see what he would do, by calling I got no info. at all. If he just calls me back I can discredit flush to and extent especially when that non- /images/graemlins/diamond.gif falls and move-in on him at the turn.

Is this the right thinking?

[Talex]

[ QUOTE ]
I like to play A/2345s in the later seats, if I hit the flop hard I usually can get quite a payoff. I would have rather been able to just limp this hand, the player who bluffed me was making $2-$4 raises preflop regularly over the 30min. I had been there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you consider reraising preflop? I'd like to know as early as possible if he's got a hand; before the pot gets to a point where I'm stuck.

[ QUOTE ]
I see now my big error was flat calling that flop, I should have at least raised him back 2-3x to see what he would do, by calling I got no info. at all. If he just calls me back I can discredit flush to and extent especially when that non- /images/graemlins/diamond.gif falls and move-in on him at the turn.

Is this the right thinking?


[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty much how I see it. Your opponent had all the psychological equity in the pot. He'd raised before the flop and bet into you on the flop. When you're just calling he's at best controlling how much he's losing, and at worse is running you out of the pot. Again, I want information upfront, I hate being in the dark if I can avoid it.

-Tim

[nicky g]

Raise on flop or on turn. Some would like to wait for turn to make sure 4th diamond doesn't hit. No way you can confidently put him on a flush. He raised preflop, and the only opposition he's faced is a call from you. He's just firing another barrel. When someone raises preflop adn bets the flop and turn, all that tells you is they think their preflop hand is still good or they are hoping the opponent will fold. I mean, if the flop had have come all 2s would you have put him on a 2? He's going to bet with many, many hands heads-up unless and would almost certainly think a big pocket pair and possibly AK were still good after you just called twice, unless he's the most absurdly weak tight predictable player to have ever played poker. The chances of him having flopped the flush are really really small.