Hourly Rate for NLHE

I have seen a lot of post for Limit hourly rate at about 2 BB/hour for a good player. How do you measure the NLHE tables? BB/h? Buy-in/hour? What should a NLHE player make if he is good player?

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
What should a NLHE player make if he is good player?

[/ QUOTE ]

5 million bucks.

[Richie Rich]

I'll save you from the torment... This topic has been covered sooooo many times, I don't think many regulars wish to re-visit this again. In short, the variance in NL is way higher than it is limit. As such, you can't really "measure" what a good player would earn by BB/hr. One hour you're up 150, the next you're down 100 - happens all the time.

If you really want to compare apples to oranges, though, I would say the NL50 games are somewhat similar to 2/4 limit games, since they both have roughly the same pot averages. But since the blinds in NL50 are smaller than they are in 2/4 limit (.5 & 1 vs. 1/2), one could say that a "good" player should make at least 4x BB/hr. Then again, a REAL good player -- one who knows how to read other players, bluff well, etc. -- can expect to make a lot more than that...

[1800GAMBLER]

NL variance is smaller, most players think it's bigger because they can lose $100 in seconds, but over sessions your variance is lower, it's the only reason i play NL.

This topic gets asked lots and no one ever gives an amount because NL win rates vary a lot from player to player, you can have a range of a huge winning amount to a huge losing amount, in limit the win rate range is smaller amoung players, so they feel less shame in saying the win rate.

In the $100 party games you should aim for at least $20 per table per hour.

[ML4L]

Hey Richie,

Hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but:

[ QUOTE ]
the variance in NL is way higher than it is limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

The opposite is true. Though you clearly have larger swings on a given hand, holding pot size constant, the session/weekly variance of a good NL player is considerably less than that of a good limit player.

[ QUOTE ]
As such, you can't really "measure" what a good player would earn by BB/hr.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if the higher variance comment were true, that's no reason why one couldn't compute an hourly rate. The reason that it's tougher to nail down in big bet is because it's tougher to define a run-of-the-mill NL game than a run-of-the-mill limit game (which should yield 1 BB/hr to an expert). In NL, stack sizes, etc. have a large impact on what an expert could earn.

[ QUOTE ]
One hour you're up 150, the next you're down 100 - happens all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, this happens in limit too.

[ QUOTE ]
If you really want to compare apples to oranges, though, I would say the NL50 games are somewhat similar to 2/4 limit games, since they both have roughly the same pot averages.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct; NL should be compared to limit based on pot-size, not blinds.

[ QUOTE ]
But since the blinds in NL50 are smaller than they are in 2/4 limit (.5 & 1 vs. 1/2), one could say that a "good" player should make at least 4x BB/hr.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like you said, limit vs. NL is apples and oranges when it comes to hourly rates. So, this approach doesn't work.

To Horrible, et al., many people quote 10-15 BB/hr for an expert big-bet player. But, IMHO, there are so many variables that one shouldn't get too hung up on that number, especially when first starting out. Work on your game, and hourly rate will take care of itself.

ML4L

[Richie Rich]

No offense taken. In fact, I appreciate your non-condescending retort.

I've only played .5/1 limit early on in my poker career, and then NL from there on out. I can see some truth in NL being a lower variance game over the long-run (since you can bounce back as quickly as you fell). It just SEEMS like the bounces are so much bigger in the short-run...

Thanks for the clarification /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Even if the higher variance comment were true, that's no reason why one couldn't compute an hourly rate. The reason that it's tougher to nail down in big bet is because it's tougher to define a run-of-the-mill NL game than a run-of-the-mill limit game (which should yield 1 BB/hr to an expert). In NL, stack sizes, etc. have a large impact on what an expert could earn.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. For live games with no maximum buy-in and a wide variation in starting stacks, skill levels, tiltedness etc, I think it's probably really hard to get a steady hourly rate. No two games will be the same.

But with these new online games, where the stack sizes are more or less even most of the time, and the interchangeable poor players come and go very quickly, most games play very similarly. I think in these circumstances it might be possible to get a good idea of what constitutes a decent hourly rate.

As ML4L said, people who track their stats better than I do claim 10-15BB/hr, and who am I to disagree?

Guy.

[nicky g]

lol