Hand from today's 2+2 SNG

[heyrocker]

I am sick over this one, and I'm not convinced I played it wrong but someone else feel free to let me know.

15/30, full table, I'm in the small blind with JJ. Two limpers to me. I make it 150. One caller. This guy has been playing pretty loose, for instance in an earlier 10/20 hand Ruddiger had raised a pot to 100, he had called with Q3o. Of course the flop came Q23. Regardless, the point is he could have basically anything as far as I'm concerned. Flop comes 48Q rainbow. I push out 300 (about the size of the pot) and he calls. Now this kind of scares me. Whats he got Q4 this time? Any Q screws me and he's demonstrated more the enough ability to play hands like that. Turn comes 5. This now puts two clubs on board. I put out another 300 and he pushes. He has me covered.

I'm sitting on my jacks, a touchy hand if ever there was one, thinking there is no way I'm ahead here. He calls a raise, a pot bet, then reraises another big bet, I must be screwed. He could have AQ/KQ, any two pair, but my gut is telling me he tripped the turn 5, which would completely fit in with the way he's behaved to this point. I think its too early for me to be blowing my stack, so I fold. He takes the pot and flips over 99. Pissed off and annoyed I go out several hands later.

Thoughts?

[ThaSaltCracka]

I will take a stab at it.
That preflop raise is far to big first of all. You are commiting to much to the hand at this point with your hooks. I would have either raised the pot or a little under.
Your flop bet is a little big, but like it because you are representing the Q or better. I think if you push here though you probably take it down.

[ QUOTE ]
I push out 300 (about the size of the pot) and he calls. Now this kind of scares me. Whats he got Q4 this time? Any Q screws me and he's demonstrated more the enough ability to play hands like that

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you psyched yourself out here, you can't always assume your "fishy" opponent has the monster here, if he did don't you think he would raise you on the flop?

[t_perkin]

shoulda checked PF.

that way pot is small and idiots don't feel so attached to it. Plus you don't have to commit so much stack to make a pot sized bet on the flop.

Bet out on the flop or check raise on the flop, depending on how things feel.

Just some thoughts. probably wrong.

Tim

[NotMitch]

No way is the preflop raise or the flop bet too big. (Edit: Although limping isnt awful either) 5x the BB is too big after 2 limpers? And a pot sized bet too big on the flop? I can't agree with that.

[Ruddiger]

I had jacks in the hand he had q3 as well, I played my jacks worse than you did I think

[PrayingMantis]

Yes, *that* hand. I'm not really happy with the PF raise here, since I don't see how you push this guy out with such a raise, after he showed us all he's willing to play any hand (he pushed with T5s not much later). So you are putting 135 t more, against somebody who'll definitely stay, and can have basically any A,K,Q, etc. Plus - you don't have position on him, which is very problematic with his kind of play. So I think I'm going for a set here, with several limpers. Going all-in is another option here maybe, so he can call you with some garbage, to double you up.

Post flop, I think I would have bet somewhat less. After his call, I basically shut down, because he can have *anything*, and he wont let it go. Why suicide here?

Well, of course he busted later to David BB(?), who just let this guy hang himself with nothing against slowplayed 2 pairs (twice in a row, quite amazing).

That's my 2 cents, anyway.

[t_perkin]

Pushing with JJ on a flop with a Q is not a clever move in the long run - esp early in a tournament.

[heyrocker]

See, now this answer I like. What I was trying to do was just grab the blinds/limps. This is why I bet out a little more than I would have otherwise. Then after the call, I felt attached to it. I figured with that flop there was a reasonable chance it missed him, so I threw out a monster bet. When he called my thought is really "he has something but not something major". So when the turn comes a blank I bet again, because I can't stand the thought of checking and thenm facing a choice when he bets, and he raises me all in, so I think he hit something, which goes along with my 55 guess (since he seems the kind to get attached to a small pair and then push when he hits his trips.) Now I'm pissed because I expended so much on that crap, and even more pissed when i realize was massively ahead.

Whereas, if I had just limped, I could have bet the flop something smaller, or even checked, and if he bets I just fold and even if he shows I don't care, its only like 80 chips. Man I hate Jacks. This is and KJ are my "I'm cursed" hands.

Think I got a little greedy and agressive on that one (I had also pushed Helmutsky off a hand with nothing a few hands before and I think I was feeling a little cocky /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

YOU'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS TONIGHT THOUGH! /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[t_perkin]

I doubled up on him too when I played AK with an A on the board straight down the line pot sized bets and he called me down with A2.

Was really worried when it got to the river - figured he was milking me with trips, but it all turned out for the best /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tim

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing with JJ on a flop with a Q is not a clever move in the long run - esp early in a tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don;t like to push early either, but I think he probably would have taken it down right there.

BTW, Heyrocker I hate that I gave you this advice because I am mostly basing it on the results and I hate it when people do this...... you know what nevermind don't listen to this advice at all /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

Heyrocker,
I think you were the one who gave me the advice on playing JJ. I also hate this hand, and based upon the number of posts I have seen talking about JJ, I think a lot of people do as well. Someone told me to play JJ like you would 88-TT, and to not play it like QQ-AA. This is probably repetative advice but I am just passing along what someone else told me, hope it helps.
Cracka

[William]

First, You are betting JJ as if you were on late position. Here you can afford a raise as you will have position on any callers. Raising UTG makes you to vulnerable when they can "feel" that you don't like the flop.
Second, if you absolutely want to take the pot right there (wich doesn't really make any sense as there is not much in it at that moment. It would be something else if it was late in the tourney) 150 is not much. You have to understand that most players don't see 150 as 5xBB, but as "only" 150 out of 1500. If you want to put pressure on them, you must bet MUCH more, I would say at least 500. But I still think is better to just limp along and let it go if an ugly flop shows and ther is action on it. Think that when you do hit a set, you have disguised your hand and if somebody acts post-flop you will probably take down a big pot.

high-medium pairs such as JJ should only be played agressively at the late stage of a tournament and the worst your position, the largest the amount of chips you must be willing to risk.

Take care,
William /images/graemlins/cool.gif