Folding an overpair

[Guido]

Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
Guido has K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif and is MP3

UTG limps, Guido raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls

Flop(9 SB): 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB bets, UTG raises, Guido 3-bets, Button folds, SB caps, UTG folds, Guido calls

Turn(9 1/2 BB): 6/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bets, Guido folds

Good fold?

Guido

[nothumb]

What did you think he had that made you fold here? If I hold something worth 3-betting on the flop I'm probably going to fire away on the turn almost regardless. Depends on the way SB has been playing, but do you really think the rainbow six has helped him? Does he 3-bet 98 here? I would be more inclined to think he made a low two pair or has A-10 here, in which case you're still losing, but the 6 hasn't changed anything.

I'd be interested to hear what you were thinking here. I would be check/calling to the river unless things got really scary.

[bagger]

Agree that you should have check/called to showdown unless something scary happens. With that much invested the guy could have even been holding onto an AK trying to scare someone out of the pot given all the low cards.

I probably would have even bet the same way as he did if I had JJ or QQ.

With the post flop pot capped, you should slow down as you could be up against a set or two pair, but I'm thinking you need to put in the last two bets with your overpair.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Guido,

I have no clue why you folded the turn here. Did you have a specific read or some sort of extra info you didn't include in your post? If not, you made a very bad fold. Your best play is to call the turn, and call the river. The only hands you want to fold against is a straight or a set. Two pair, Txd, or a flush draw are hands you still should be calling against, which make the majority of hands the SB could have here.

GoT

[eh923]

I don't like the fold. If my math is right, you're getting 10.5-1 to call. If you KNEW he had a set or AA, then you should fold.

But without a great read, you don't know that. For example, you could be ahead of someone overplaying JJ or QQ. You also would have odds to chase if they have a small 2 pair. Finally, Party is full of morons who would play this way w/ A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

eh923

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
What did you think he had that made you fold here?

[/ QUOTE ]
Trips

[ QUOTE ]
If I hold something worth 3-betting on the flop I'm probably going to fire away on the turn almost regardless.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did that too. I always thought: well he probably has trips, or a straight or whateven I thought he had. About 70 or 80% I'm right and I just hate being right and still calling down. That's why I'm trying to fold more in these situations. I raised the preflop and he caps my 3-bet, that tells me he has trips...

Guido

[eh923]

But even if you're right 70-80% of the time, the pot's laying you better odds than that. A call's in order.

If you're going to think about percentages, than you need to get over not liking to feel like a fish when you properly call down a possible loser.

[nothumb]

Guido,

I made a mistake in my earlier post when I said, "If I hold something worth 3-betting, I'll fire away..."

What I meant to say was, if I'm the SB and CAP the flop, I will fire away regardless.

In other words, my main point was, if you're folding to the bet on the turn when it's not likely he's improved, you might as well have folded on the flop. I don't think he capped it with a straight draw here and it's much more likely he's still sitting on two pair or trips. If you really believe he's got it you might as well dump on the flop, but I would have to be utterly convinced of this to do so, as you are making a huge mistake otherwise.

I understand why you folded, but with the size of the pot I would check/call.

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really believe he's got it you might as well dump on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
True very very true but for some reason I always call and fold the turn when I don't hit my miracle K.

Guido

[Guido]

Hi GOT,

I folded because I put him on trips although I might be wrong of course. I probably should have folded after the flop cap when I believed he had trips. I had a very aggressive table image and I didn't experience much aggression against me. I know I should have called him down when I believed he had two pair or less. Would you play QQ and JJ the same way? I used to call and about 70 to 80% my read was right. Perhaps this is not a good reason to fold but that was the main reason why I folded this time. Perhaps I should go into calling down mode like I used to do.

Thanks,

Guido

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you really believe he's got it you might as well dump on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
True very very true but for some reason I always call and fold the turn when I don't hit my miracle K.

Guido

[/ QUOTE ]

No no the pot is enormous after he caps the flop. If he flipped up TT you would still have to see the turn. The odds might be a little short but he would probably 3-bet the turn at the least and that would give you sufficient implied odds.

I'd also call this down.

[Guido]

Where's your avatar BTW /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
No no the pot is enormous after he caps the flop. If he flipped up TT you would still have to see the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I knew there was a reason why I called the flop cap /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Guido

[bernie]

No read, no opponent description. Many, not all, will wait for the turn with a set.

Im calling this out.

b