BB K2 vs bad player that calls/raises with anything

[winky51]

NL Holdem $5/1 tournament

At the table many of the players have realized I am better than them and usually have folded to my raises. Player B folds to no one.

Player A typical bad player.

Player B has been calling with anything and raising with anything. He won several pots by stealing them from others. he got a few good hands but calls EP with crap like 96os.

Me 700 chips blinds 50/100
Player A 1100 chips
Player B 3200 chips


I have Ks, 2d in the BB no raises PF. The decoder didnt work BTW.

Flop comes Kd, Jd, 7c with one player EP (bad player A) and this guy in MP (very bad player B)

I bet 150, Playber A calls, Player B raises 250, I think for a second believing maybe player A might have a king and discounting player B does. Usually Player B raises to buy the pot. So I go all in and he calls. Turns out he has Ad Td and gets his flush on the river.

Looking at it he was getting 3-1 on his chips with a 1-3 chance of winning. I assume he was correct to call but was I correct to go all in? I put him on a lower card or a draw. Could not realize he had an ace.

[PrayingMantis]

First, 5+1 SNGs are probably the worst proposition, with this 20% vig. Better play 10+1.

About the hand: you are doing 2 things you shouldn't do against bad players. 1) playing bad hands - K2 is terrible, here and elsewhere. 2) you try to push them out, when they show you they are interested in this pot after your initial bet. Bad players don't fold easily.

Besides, you are simply putting all you have on a bad hand, with bad position, against *two* opponents, and when it's fairly early in the game. This is not the best strategy.

As a rule, Your advantage against players who don't fold - is to play premium hands and make them pay. Your advantage against over-aggressive players, is to trap them with strong hands, usually post-flop. I think that in this case, you don't really want to play these guys, with your TP+ worst kicker, from BB.

BTW, you say: "At the table many of the players have realized I am better than them and usually have folded to my raises". I don't quite understand what you mean. How do they realized you are better than them, 2-3 levels into an SNG, and what does it have to do with them folding to your raises? it sounds like you're simply playing in a little tight table maybe, or that you're raising too big, and pushing them out. otherwise I don't see the connection between you being better player and them folding. If you were raising a lot, it makes your move here even less reasonable, because the others see you as a bit of a maniac.

All in all, I think this is not the right spot for showing so much aggression.

Only my thoughts, I hope it helps,

PrayingMantis

[Guy McSucker]

There's no point taking top-pair-no-kicker against two players, no matter how poor they are. If either has a King, you are toast. Wait for a better hand, as PrayingMantis said.

I also wanted to point out how strong your opponent's hand was here. He beats you with any A, Q or diamond: 15 cards. If you get all-in on the flop, he's the favourite.

edit: okay, just noticed you had one diamond, so he has only 14 outs; he's still a slight favourite with two cards to come

Guy.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

many of the players have realized I am better than them and usually have folded to my raises.

Either that or they had crap cards. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[winky51]

Nope you guys are totally right. I am a limit player. Didnt play much NL until then. I actually got 2nd at a live tournament winning $1500 on Monday.

But after playing NL against bad players what you all said I have noticed.

1. They don't fold.
2. They tend to go all in with marginal hands.
3. They play crap including Ace any.

Like Sam Farha said "against a bad player I have to have a hand".

I played a bunch of $5 NL tournaments for practice and I saw all these things.

One thing I do find a bit difficult is this.

Thanks for the advice and I saw it and used it in practice.

[pgec311]

If you are going to play 5+1s, there is a pretty simple strategy that you should follow (I do agree with PrayingMantis that the 10+1s are better). Be even tighter than usual in the early rounds, I have noticed that if you just fold and be patient, three or four of the bad players will take themselves out before the blinds hit 25/50. Only play if you have a real chance to increase your stack, and very rarely, if ever, should you go all-in with anything, much less a K2. Just wait, and it will be down to 5 or six before you know it, and then you can start playing your normal game. Anytime I lose a couple of 10s or 20s I go play a couple of these to get back in gear, and I rarely finish outside of the money. Just a few thoughts.

regards
PC

[winky51]

Seems like it is so. I like to play $30/$3 table. Playters still as bad but more $$$.

I do notice usually 3 will self-destruct. I play at most 100 chips and only if its a real hand. 15 chip bets to bust someone is not too bad. But any raises I fold or unless I get a solid hand I fold. Trips top 2 pair, str, flush..... and no threats. I works 80% of the time. Once in a while I get nailed. but it has a + EV.

Just did a limp raise with KK and lost to 2222 on the flop 622 rainbow. Someone with a pair of 2s called my reraise. Go figure. But it shows they call with ANYTHING and you can get easily busted. Yes I went all in on teh flop figuring no one would call 2 something or 22 know I represented AA or KK.

[Prickly Pete]

[ QUOTE ]
At the table many of the players have realized I am better than them and usually have folded to my raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just shocked this quote didn't come from Punk's Corner in the internet forum.

[Phil Van Sexton]

Calling with K2 pre-flop is certainly questionable, but I'm not really opposed to his play on the flop.

As usual, it depends on the players, but I think he made a reasonable play moving all-in on the flop.

He was on the short stack and got called by a flush draw, so he had 2:1 chance to double up. Nothing wrong with that according to the Fundamental Theorem of Poker.

When you get heads-up or 3-handed, people will play any cards, so rather than count outs, you need to determine the likelyhood that they have a K.

You have a K and there's another on the board, so there's 2 Kings left in the 47 unknown cards. Therefore the chances of either of them having a K is only ~17%.

Obviously, since you've been raised, the chances are higher than 17%. However, you say that he "calls/raises with anything", and therefore it's likely well below 50% and therefore your reraise was correct (as it turned out to be).

Therefore, you can't be too scared of bad kickers when heads-up or even 3 handed. The main reason you want to start with KQ instead of K2 is because KQ gives you 2 cards that may make top pair, not because K2 has a weak kicker.

[pgec311]

"When you get heads-up or 3-handed, people will play any cards, so rather than count outs, you need to determine the likelyhood that they have a K."

Phil
i agree if this was down to three people in the tourney, playing this hand would be closer to correct, but since the blinds were 50/100, I assume there were more and this hand came down to these three in which case calling a raise would be dangerous, and being the short stack at 700 with 50/100 blinds you have plenty of time to wait for something better to put your chips in with. Good points you made, though.

PC

[Phil Van Sexton]

Ahhh, good point. You never know with 5/1...could 3 or 10 players left at this point.