Check/fold AKs in the BB

[Justaloser]

Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
Hero has Ad, Kd and is BB

EP1 limps, EP2 limps, MP2 limps, MP3 limps, CO limps, Button folds, SB limps, Hero checks

Flop(7 SB): Ts, 8s, 3s

SB bets, Hero folds, EP1 folds, EP2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds

Turn(4 1/2 BB): Qs

SB checks, MP2 bets, SB calls

River(6 1/2 BB): 2c

SB checks, MP2 bets, SB folds

[bisonbison]

You are giving up a ton of chips if you don't raise this preflop.

[Justaloser]

While I don't want to seem results oriented, I think that I played this hand almost perfectly.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
While I don't want to seem results oriented, I think that I played this hand almost perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise preflop. Fold the flop. Then you'd have played it perfectly.

[PokerBob]

I respectfully disagree. You have strength. Show it.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
While I don't want to seem results oriented, I think that I played this hand almost perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude. Raise preflop. There is nothing perfect about checking in that spot.... The phrase 'crime against humanity' comes to mind.

[Justaloser]

Dude. Raise preflop. There is nothing perfect about checking in that spot.... The phrase 'crime against humanity' comes to mind.

Please explain why betting into 6 people that will call is better than seeing the flop and being aggressive if I hit is a crime against humanity.

[Chaos_ult]

A lot of your equity with AK comes from the money you put in before the flop. Raise it up!

[bisonbison]

You want them to call. You have a huge edge here. You will win way more than 1/7 of the time. That is all that matters.

Pop quiz: when you raise AA preflop, do you want people to call or fold?

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
Please explain why betting into 6 people that will call is better than seeing the flop and being aggressive if I hit is a crime against humanity

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if you hit a hand, which you have a good shot of doing you will make a lot more money than if you don't

Jim

[bicyclekick]

I can't think of any good reason not to raise pf. You have a hand that plays well in large multiway pots and you almost for sure have the best of it.

Raise that [censored].

[arkady]

Everyone limped to you, i think there is a very very good chance that you currently are holding the best hand. Raise and punish them for limping in with trash.

Furthermore if you hit your hand, you are collecting a bigger pot.

The amount of times you will hit and win will offset that one extra bet you are putting in.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
Please explain why betting into 6 people that will call is better than seeing the flop and being aggressive if I hit is a crime against humanity.

[/ QUOTE ]

You answered your own question - because they will all call.

If 9 people are going to call every bet and I had AK suited I would want them to cap it preflop. AK suited plays fantastic multiway and makes a lot of its money before the flop even comes out.

If you limp with AK and flop an ace or a king, who do you think is going to pay you off? Nobody - you missed bets before the flop.

Now if there were 6 people who were going to call a bet anyway and you had AA, would you want to raise?

Yes - you would..

*** this line never existed... really it didn't ***

Crime against humanity for sure here. Don't ever do that again. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Flop fold is standard though. Don't let a bad flop make you think otherwise about raising AKs preflop.

[BigEndian]

[ QUOTE ]
Pop quiz: when you raise AA preflop, do you want people to call or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

But, the more people in the hand, the more likely you are to lose! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

- Jim

[BigEndian]

[ QUOTE ]
Now if there were 6 people who were going to call a bet anyway and you had AA, would you want to raise?

Yes - you would.. you just probably wouldn't want a lot of people coming along.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want them to go get people from the parking lot to come in and call you.

- Jim

[PokerBob]

When I have AA, I want them all to call, but I want them to have the following hands; 99,88,77,66,55,44,33,22. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mike Gallo]

While I don't want to seem results oriented, I think that I played this hand almost perfectly.

Your kidding right /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
You want them to go get people from the parking lot to come in and call you.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea yea I caught my mistake after hitting continue... you try working and posting while getting hounded every 5 minutes and see how good you do it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Justaloser]

Pop quiz: when you raise AA preflop, do you want people to call or fold?

If there are 6 people ahead of me? Fold.

[BigEndian]

Just, for your reading pleasure: http://gocee.com/poker/HE_Val_Sort.htm

Now, do you want them to call or fold?

- Jim

[bisonbison]

If there are 6 people ahead of me? Fold.

You really need to do some thinking about whether you're playing to win pots or playing to win chips.

[PokerBob]

I think I know where you are coming from here, but your attitude has to change. (I used to feel the same way. I think it comes from a background in No-Limit.) YOU want to raise to drive people away so you can win the pot, which you know will not happen in this case. You must look at it as an investment. Throwing more $$$ into the pot when you have the best hand is a good investment, regardless of the outcome. Read Sklansky's Theory of Poker and you too shall see the light.

[BIGRED]

I agree with the posters here. AKs is a raise here, but what about AKo? Do you guys also raise this as readily? For me, AKo is not an automatic raise with so many limpers.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Pop quiz: when you raise AA preflop, do you want people to call or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a trick question. I want them to raise.

[superleeds]

No you don't.

22,22,55,55,88,88,99,99, would be nice tho

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the posters here. AKs is a raise here, but what about AKo? Do you guys also raise this as readily? For me, AKo is not an automatic raise with so many limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll always open-raise with AKo in this instance, regardless of the number of limpers. Depending on the raiser's raising standards, I'd probably be inclined to 3-bet with it, as well.

AKo is a really, really strong hand preflop, and should be played as such.

[Mike Gallo]

[ QUOTE ]
Pop quiz: when you raise AA preflop, do you want people to call or fold?

If there are 6 people ahead of me? Fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

In case you did not know this, I will point something out to you. Your profit in poker comes from players calling when they should fold. You profit when your opponents call when they should raise. You will profit every time your opponents make a mistake.

For this hand your opponents profited from you. I hope that you do not think you played this perfectly.

[Ruddiger]

[ QUOTE ]
While I don't want to seem results oriented, I think that I played this hand almost perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the point of you posting this hand if you think this then? Keep on playing your perfect poker

[Justaloser]

For this hand your opponents profited from you. I hope that you do not think you played this perfectly.

Mike, I respect your opinion a lot. I understand the point that in general I should raise preflop w/AKs. But from just this one hand, this one moment in time, they did not profit from me. It may have been weak/tight, it may have been wrong more times than right, but I lost the least amount I could lose on a hand that I had almost no chance of winning.

Would I make this play every time? No. Would I play it that way half of the time? I don't think so. But call it karma, poker instict, weak/tight or sheer dumb luck, I chose to check pre flop. And when the SB bet on the flop, there was no reason to stay.

[Justaloser]

What is the point of you posting this hand if you think this then? Keep on playing your perfect poker

Because I realize that I know only a fraction of what I need to know to be a good poker player. I also know that along with the occasional smart aleck comments, I will get some good insight.

[Justaloser]

The amount of times you will hit and win will offset that one extra bet you are putting in.

Good point. Thank you.

[Mike Gallo]

Change your name. I have a difficult time addressing you as just a loser. Kind of like JoshW and Gummy Worm.

This weekend I sat in an ok $6-$12 game with poster AviD. I limped under the gun with AK planning to limp re-raise. During the session I told AviD that I wanted to attempt a limp re-raise in this game because of the amount of loose late position raising that took place.

Nobody raised so the opportunity never presented itself for me to limp reraise. I lost to someone who played A 9 and I lost to a final board of A 9 6 2 6. Did not raising cost me the hand, maybe maybe not, however I limped for a reason.

If you had a reason fine, if you did not raise because you feared the limpers, then you need to reevaluate your logic. I limped to win a bigger pot if someone raised me, I did not limp to create a smaller pot.

[Mike Gallo]

It may have been weak/tight, it may have been wrong more times than right, but I lost the least amount I could lose on a hand that I had almost no chance of winning.

Why did you no have no chance of winning? If the flop comes AAK or all of your suit you will stand a damn good chance of winning.

[Mike Gallo]

I respectfully disagree. You have strength. Show it.


You also raise because you have a hand that will win more than it will lose.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the point that in general I should raise preflop w/AKs. But from just this one hand, this one moment in time, they did not profit from me. It may have been weak/tight, it may have been wrong more times than right, but I lost the least amount I could lose on a hand that I had almost no chance of winning.


[/ QUOTE ]

UGH...this is like saying "I folded red aces on the button after seven limpers, and the flop came 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif..."Gee, aren't I lucky!"

[Justaloser]

Why did you no have no chance of winning? If the flop comes AAK or all of your suit you will stand a damn good chance of winning.

When the flop came, I had virtually no chance of winning. I was speaking about that specific hand, not AKs in general.

BTW, got any suggestions for a new nickname? /images/graemlins/grin.gif
JustStupid?

[me454555]

I think its very important to raise AKo pf in this situation. When you flop an A or K, it often scares all the undercards away if they don't flop a pair or strong draw. You might as well get their money in before the flop and fold them out when you can.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I disagree. With AKs and that many limpers, you'd like to raise preflop to build the pot, With big suited connectors you want to tie other hands to the pot to maximize your profit when you hit.

No problem with the flop fold. When the SB bets into 6 opponents on a monochrome board and neither of your cards is of that suit, you have to figure you're drawing very, very thin.

[bernie]

You played it the 'perfect' way i'd like my opponents to play it.

Listen to MG.

b

[juanez]

Pudley read my mind.

As far as the number of limpers preflop, the more the better with AK whether suited or not.

[Homer]

But from just this one hand, this one moment in time, they did not profit from me. It may have been weak/tight, it may have been wrong more times than right, but I lost the least amount I could lose on a hand that I had almost no chance of winning.

Had you known what cards were going to come on the flop, of course you shouldn't raise, but you didn't know what cards were coming.

But call it karma, poker instict, weak/tight or sheer dumb luck, I chose to check pre flop.

The words you're looking for are 'voodoo BS'.

-- Homer

[BigEndian]

[ QUOTE ]
The words you're looking for are 'voodoo BS'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy with the technical mumbo jumbo, you're going to confuse me.

- Jim

[Clarkmeister]

For those that don't know, this is where the "Crime against humanity" reference comes from...

http://tinyurl.com/249b7

[fourgapper]

Not necessarily. The odds of one of them flopping a set is larger than the odds of none of them flopping a set or you making trips.