Flopped flush from BB

$3-6 game last night. I come in behind the button and by the time the BB comes around, I still haven't cracked one of my stacks. Game seems fairly tight, with some decent players at the table. Older lady to my right was totally unknown to me, but she appeared to have been doing well in the game, with about $300 in front of her. No read on her play yet , though.


In the BB, I pick up Th-3h. Several limpers, the lady calls out of the SB.


Flop comes down Qh-9h-4h.. Lady slightly hesitates going for her chips, but then checks. I bet out, no free cards here. One caller from MP, all others fold back to SB, who calls.


Turn comes the 8s. Now she bets! At this point, my initial "read" is that she also has hearts, given her double clutch on the flop. I doubt that this offsuit 8 substantially improved her hand; it just seemed to me that even if she DID make 2-pair or something with that card, she was the type of LL player who would check, because of course there was a possible flush on board! Just my gut reaction.


Well, what do you do on the turn when she bets right at you? I raised without any hesitation, trying to both protect my hand against the presumed single high heart to my left, but then again I had played with the fellow on my left before and he would call with almost anything. If I had been 3-bet by this lady, then I probably would have had to consider laying it down, but as I was going to go call, call without any doubt, why not pop it on the turn to maybe give myself a better chance of winning the hand with a 3rd player invovled. Any quibbles with that decision?


LHO cold-calls the raise, and SB smooth calls.


River is a blank, doesn't pair the board. SB checks. Your play. Bet again , or check behind her. Results a little later.

You have played it right so far. I would bet the river. She could have been betting a straight with jack-ten but was fearful of the possible flush. The other guy could simply have a big heart in his hand. I would play my hand as good and expect to get calls from worse hands.

Bet. No question.


The number of times I don't bet 4th nuts on the river after I haven't been raised once on any street is, if not zero, pretty damn close.


Especially if you were playing at Yellowhead. No one is going to help you out by raising or 3-betting for you, so when you make something, you better extract all the way.


ps, I don't see why lady can't have JT (maybe with the Jh), which means the 8 did improve her hand (at least in her mind).

I agree. Jh-10x is the hand I put her on. Outside chance she is trying to make a move with Ah-8x. Maybe, she is terribly mis-handling the playing of a set (44?). If she has a flush I think it is equally possible that is it is lower than yours.


If she had flopped the monster flush why check/call the flop then bet out the turn? And not 3-bet is when it comes back? Makes no sense, but I have seen hands played worse I guess.


Bet and call a raise, which I don't think will happen beacuse you are ahead.


Treefrog

The only time she put the least bit of pressure on you was when she led the the turn and when you 3-bet she went to calling mode for the remainder of the hand.


I'd say she has a small flush at best, J-10, a set or 2-pair. I don't think the other player would have smooth called your raise on the turn if he had you beat. He would have 3-bet you right there to try and charge the lady to draw for the board to pair.


So, that being the case, and a blank hit the river, I would bet for value when she checked (as you did).


I will say that I have been involved in hands like this before thinking I should be in the lead here, only to have someone show me something like Jh 2h.


Hope it's not, but if that's the case here, I believe you still played it right.


I'll check the others and look for the results later.


KC50

Well, so far Jim, Dave, KC and I are all on the same page.


When the LOL checks the river, I look at here a little suspiciously. Is she setting me up? nnnaaaaaawwww.. Is she a calling station? More than likely. Bet your hand, fool!


So, I place my $6 out there, and get called in BOTH places! I turn over my Ten-high monster, the guy on my left shows down Ah-4d (?????) and gramma comes up with the Kh-5h.


Nice start to the sit. I have NO idea what the guy on my left was thinking calling at the river, but as she's stacking the chips, I politely said, "nice hand" all the while a little PO'd at my luck. I thanked her for not 3-betting me , or check-raising me on the river, and she said, "well you could have had the Ace!"


She should KNOW that the play of the hand somewhat implies that I don't have the nut flush, in my opinion.


One, if I had held Ah-xh, I would have quite possibly gone for a check-raise on the flop with a big field behind me yet to act. Not 100% of the time, but quite possible.


Two, what logical holding could the other guy in the hand have held? She's looking at the Kh, presumably I don't have the Ace, so what's this guy on my left holding? He made no move on the flop to protect his hand if he had flopped a set or 2-pair, so by inference he almost has to have a big heart card. After seeing what he called with at the river, though, I guess trying to use logical inferences to work out HIS hand would be a waste of time! LOL


I know what you're going to say. Why get into 2nd and 3rd level thinking with calling stations that can barely think about what THEY hold, never mind about what you might, or should , have. But I still think this type of hand is worth thinking about if for no other reason that when I do get into tougher games on occasion, there WILL be other players in the game who are capable of making more logical inferences about hand-reading and the way hands get played out.


As an aside, it gets worse! A couple of laps later, I limp in behind several callers with Qh-9h. No preflop raises and abaout 7 of us take a flop of Kh-7h-7d. Checked to this lady, she bets. I call, as do three others behind me.


Turn is the Jh. She bets again, and I pop it. Deja vu, babe! Everyone folds, and she calls. Turn is a blank, the 3c. I am going to bet again, but before I can reach for chips, SHE bets!


Now what? Another stop and go move. After watching her not 3-bet me before with that K-high flush, now what the hell is she gonna show me? How could this 3 have helped her? Why not 3-bet on the turn? I wimp out and just call, and she shows me the 7c-3c. Yikes!!! I guess that 3 DID help her, and thankfully she didn't go for the check-raise.


At the end of the sit, I have pitched a 1-hitter. The ONLY pot I win in 2+ hours is with 8c-6c from the SB when I get to limp in for an additional $2 after a MP player doesn't raise pre-flop with AA, and I flop trip 6's. Just prolonged the agony, I guess!

I guess I will watch out for slow-playin grandma's from now on. I am shocked. Obviously playing on-line has skewed my perception of the real world.


I still think you played this right, and you were right to thank her for not costing you more, although I would have only done it in my head, silently.


Oh and MP is a bonehead...but you knew that. God these weak-loose players will drive you nuts. Don't get me started on the guy this morning. 4 handed table. He limped then called my raise (Heads up here). Bet then called my raise on the flop then checked down the turn and river to show me AA. Gads, and I thought my pair of 10s, K kicker, might actually be good...ROFL. The board was something like Q-8-5,2,10. I guess he thought I had QQ?!


Treefrog

If you were sure that the old lady's "flinch" to go for her chips on the flop before she changed her mind and checked it signified that she had a monster hand, could you have laid down your ten high flush? That would have been the ultimate test of self-discipline. I realize you hadn't played with her long enough to know this, but if you had played with her for a long time and knew for certain that she only did that when she had a monster, could you have laid it down? Boy, that would be tough....


Tim

I'm not certain that I could have laid it down or not. It's just that he little "tell" did set off an alarm to some degree with me, but I don't see how I could have got out of this mess much chaper, really.


I was sort of internally pleased that my read was correct, in any event.