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View Full Version : Last night...was this a +PV play? The Rock Bottom Brewery hand


gonores
03-28-2004, 06:31 PM
The following is a “hand” I played last night at a local, ummm, B&M.

I had the rare opportunity to get out on the prowl in Milwaukee last night. Marquette is the antithesis of UW-Madison in terms of social atmosphere, and the long-term relationship is the norm at this school. This doesn’t present itself too well to a dedicated bachelor like myself, but I make do with the situation. The big problem is that when it comes time to go hang out with the boys, strategic goals of the evening rarely revolve around attracting lovely young women, as basically every friend I have has been in a long-term relationship for most of their collegiate careers. Instead, the clichéd “Boys Night Out” usually revolves around competition, alcohol, and juvenile humor. Don’t get me wrong….I love Urban Paintball and Speed Parallel Parking as much as the next guy, but somehow I feel like I am missing a quintessential aspect of college life because I rarely get to hunt females in a pack greater than 1. Thankfully, for me, a St. Valentine Day massacre of sorts took place this year, leaving two of my buddies single. After weeks of coaxing, I finally dragged them out of hiding last night and talked them into heading down to the Rock Bottom Brewery in downtown Brewtown.

The Rock Bottom is a perfect place for me to play. The female regulars there are a good combination of loose-passive and loose-aggressive, which fits right into my style. It’s even better for me tonight, because I’m high on confidence…the basketball court, the class room, the poker tables, the internship…wherever I’ve been this week, I’ve been cleaning up. You bring confidence into this kind of game, and there’s no telling what kind of damage you can do.

Some people will tell you table selection isn’t important at this place, as you are bound to get action no matter where you sit, but I beg to differ. I sit down with my boys and I order up the first round…black and tans for everyone. Our drinks come, and the night kicks off. I see a group of women…exactly the type of opponents for which I am looking tonight. One of them, in particular….long-haired blonde, has a quiet, nearly imperceptible aura of confidence about her. She’s wearing an eye-catching turquoise, sleeveless turtleneck and black pants with heels…a little overdressed for the establishment…either she’s heading elsewhere tonight or she’s new to the scene. I’m reading a sort of bookish common sense in her eyes…she’s not going anywhere else tonight…she’s overdressed…but it doesn’t bother her at all. The second I see her, I’m imagining a ponytail and light-blue scrubs…med student…she has to be. Where else is a girl who’s looking like that in a place like this going to lose her sense of self-consciousness? Anywho, where was I? Table selection….the ladies take a seat a few rows down, and I call the brush, a friend of mine, over and immediately ask for a table change. There’s multi-generational group of 4 sitting back-to-back with my target, probably a meet-the-parents-type get-together. They’re hold-overs from the dinner crowd….just enjoying drinks, but it looks like mom and dad are about to go to the felt. They soon grab for some racks, and I make sure we get that seat. We take a few orbits at my current table, and basically sit and fold junk hands, all the while salivating at the possibilities at the new table. We finally get called over, approximately 1.5 black and tans into the night, we sit down, and my buddy cries “akshawn!” It’s show time at the Rock.

First chance I get at the new table, I show some preflop aggression. Just as I am sitting down, I look over at our new opponents, and I fire out some observational humor about the Sweet-n-Low package one of our opponents with which one of our opponents is playing. The joke is well-received, and it’s time to see a flop. With the kind of hand I have, I can’t help but smile at the preflop action...it has to be a precursor for things to come, right?

The flop comes: poseur, dirty old man, techie nerd. I check out my opponent and it’s obvious the flop has entirely missed her. Completely disinterested. I check my hole cards once more and I decide to slow-play her. My thinking here is that if I act now, I am not going to get maximum PV out of this great situation. I’ll wait a little while, let her have a few more drinks, and hope to get maximum payoff for my aggression. I try to feign disinterest by engaging my buddies in a discussion about the upcoming NFL draft.

I decide to make my move on the turn after pot head shows up on the board. After another quick joke, I pull an isolation move. “By the way, I’m Doug. I’m going to go to the bar and get another drink, care to join me.” She falls for the play, and I get some valuable information off her on this street. She’s a med student (what a read), new to the area. She doesn’t have to tell me, but I can tell she has a great mind, with plenty insight and wit being injected into the conversation (yeah, sure, that’s what I’m looking for). I was hoping she would raise me with her phone number so I could re-raise with an invite for her and her friends to some after-bar fun back at my place with me and my comrades. From her body language, I was pretty sure I was getting paid off…but she teases me a little. Apparently we’ve been gone long enough and it’s time for me to take her back to her friends. I’m still pretty certain I’m getting paid at the river, but I’ll have to wait and see.

To review, the board so far is poseur, dirty old man, techie nerd, pot head. I’m dead positive I’ve got the best hand coming in to the river, but then, disaster strikes. The river comes: college athlete & posse. I won’t disclose his identity, but to be certain, if you know anything about Milwaukee NCAA sports, you’re no more than a few educated guesses away from figuring out who this guy is. Just as I am gathering up my boys to change seats to get better position on our opponents, I take a look over at “Her.” Showtunes are going off in her head (this line was inserted to induce vomiting from the reader). Christ….the one card in the deck that can help her, and she rivers me. It’s obvious….just look at her eyes. That little voice in my head says “who cares…you HAVE to show more aggression here. Don’t worry about the river.” So stubborn old me fires out once more, only to get with the obvious knockout raise. I decide to save a bet and fold before this hand gets anymore expensive, and myself and my friends head down the street to find another table….my image irreparably damaged at this place for the night.

So, the question I ask you…was slowplaying a positive PV move here? I guess I wanted her staying in the hand while drawing extremely thin, but the way I played it, I got nothing, not even a phone number. Was I too greedy?

Cubswin
03-28-2004, 06:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently we’ve been gone long enough and it’s time for me to take her back to her friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right here is where you should have realized your hands was no good. Those who do not allow themselves to be isolated are hard to score on. Firing at the pot after this point is useless. This table is obviously too tough... call the brush over and ask for a table change.

regards
cubs

J.A.Sucker
03-28-2004, 08:31 PM
When playing with a small stack and trying to get it all in, I find that slowplaying is an idiot move. You are either going to get the action you want or you aren't. If so, great. If not, then just rebuy and try again. You really need to work on your overall understanding of the game.

tommy2
03-28-2004, 10:38 PM
I went to MU as well...I remember that scene all too well. Sounds like you got Deinered--which is the equivalent to a runner runner flush draw. Gotta slowplay those Milwaukee med students, pounding the flop does not work, in my experience.

Besides, in Milwaukee the odds are that you will bump into her again. You've got real game in that instance.

Schneids
03-28-2004, 10:47 PM
No good.

Slowplaying leads to being another girlfriend who is good to talk with. Don't wear a blouse. If the girl is hot there are going to be so many drawers, it's too risky to let someone else catch against you.

You've gotta ram and jam and get in there assertively -- girls like that and will push you all in when you've got the nuts.

NLSoldier
03-28-2004, 11:49 PM
BEST...POST...EVER!

Edge34
03-29-2004, 03:07 AM
In my opinion, you had the absolute nuts on the flop, and if not then, definitely by the turn. Moving in on the turn is an absolute MUST, you can't wait to get "Deinered" out of the pot - the ultimate counterfeit, you can't give her time to draw to it cheaply. If she's going to call you on any street its here.

Not to mention, you said it yourself, you're not looking for longterm +PV here. Just get it all-in by the turn and see where it takes you. If she walks away, just grab a rack and ask for a table change.


FANTASTIC post /images/graemlins/cool.gif
Tough river... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

bad beetz
03-29-2004, 09:00 PM
First of all, I want to remind everyone haakee and I lay claim to the creation of the term PV, so all you haters can suck it. And thank you, gonores, for employing it so creatively.

About the post:

The post itself lends itself to the read that you're probably a pretty cool guy, but a nerd on the inside. Hide this when you go out to bang chicks. I do.

Here's a positive EV play that's mildly unethical but effective:

Find the said group of three. Pick the one that is the least attractive or most shy. Focus all your attention on her. Occasionally make eye contact and question the others, but focus 3 x attentions on the ugly one. The other two will thin, “wtf? I’m prettier than that bitch, pay attention to me, [censored],” and their instinctually competitive nature will take over, and it won’t matter whether you live with your mom or are missing an ear or whatever.

Next:
Read a few sales books. [censored] the “how to get laid book,” you want to sell yourself to women. Key things? Use their name A LOT. Everyone, goneres, likes to hear their name. Goneres, you sound like a smart guy……. (now don’t tell me you wouldn’t be more receptive to the sentence that comes after that then if it weren’t there.)

Even if it was, Shirley, you seem like a smart girl……. Let’s do it.

Also, ask them questions. DO NOT talk about yourself. People love to talk about themselves, and if you give them an avenue to do such they will be drawn to you. Pound them with questions.

YOU “What do you, Shirley?”

SHIRELY “I manually masturbate caged animals for artificial insemination.”

YOU “Really? That’s fascinating, you sound like a fascinating person. What’s your favorite animal to jerk off? Oh, monkeys? What do you like most about monkeys? Etc,

Throw in something flattering about yourself (but make sure it relates to what they were just talking about) for every 5 or so segments of them talking about what they like.

Also, get them drunk. Order some shots. Do not get them so drunk that they will not remember doing you. That’s not legal or cool. Get them drunk enough so when they ask you what you drive and you say “Mercedes,” they don’t follow it up with, “what year?” (ahem. …. … 82.)

Keep ahead of the game. If one looks bored and may request the group move on, focus on her and ping her with questions. Don’t let that bwaaatch lower your PV. Keep it hight.

bad beetz
03-29-2004, 09:03 PM
I didn't think about this. He's more than 100% right.

that's a big time tell.

Al_Capone_Junior
03-29-2004, 09:36 PM
You're right about the puking part. Ever since going to the bovine high-school football player capital of texas for two agonizing years, I have basically despized jocks and their tiny little brains ever since. But I wised up a long time ago and quit giving a chit about the equally shallow women who like the jocks.

al

gonores
03-29-2004, 11:21 PM
Allow me to pay homage, good sirs, to the gentlemen who coined the perfect phrase for the underlying theory behind the science of making moves on the fairer sex.

A few things....

[ QUOTE ]
but a nerd on the inside. Hide this when you go out to bang chicks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right...deep down, I'm pure nerd, although I guess you could substitute the word "goofball" just as easily. However, I'm not going to hide it when I go out. I think I have a higher +PV expectation by being me and hoping I get across some sort of assertive, goofy charm than by trying to adlib smoothness. Then again, when I've gone out West, I've found that your games have a lot more aggression, and playing it smooth may be the way to go.

[ QUOTE ]
Find the said group of three. Pick the one that is the least attractive or most shy....

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at this. From 8-10 on the 10 point rating scale, I'm pretty much on pat with my peers, but the 4-7 range on my scale is totally f-ed up. Ask Clark and Dynasty....when we played in Vegas, our scales were way off from each other. I dunno....the quirks that turn some guys off can actually move the girl up a point or two into the 1-sigma above the mean range. Otherwise, it's a great line to take.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, get them drunk.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the exact point in slowplaying. The reason I initially held back was that it was ~10:30, 11:00ish, and she was nursing T&T #1. I'd rather we get to know each other while her inhibitions were a little closer to the back of her mind. One thing (of very few things) that I've learned about this sort of situation is that it is incredibly hard to keep a girl in that "Damn, I want you and I want you tonight" mindset throughout the course of the evening...unless, of course, there is actually a spark there. And, let's face it...I'm not looking to find an actual spark...just to create the illusion of one. Way easier to do that with my good buddy alcohol working along with me.

BTW...A small detail I wanted to work into the story that I forgot to work in. Back in my bartending days, I concoted a pretty solid drink, although it's a bit chick-ish. I bought "Her" this drink while at the bar. The beauty of it is the amount of booze you can hide in this drink without anyone knowing.

"The Striptease"

In a martini shaker, add

1.5oz Tanqueray Gin
1oz Malibu Rum
.5oz Peach Schnapps
1-1.5oz Lemonade
1oz Orange Juice
1/4oz Grenadine (added to create a pinkish hue...remove if serving to a male)
1/4oz Rose's Lime

Two violent shakes, strain into a frosted martini glass. Can be served with any fruit. It delivers 50-75% more booze than the standard pathetic excuse most bars consider to be a cosmo, but it masks the extra booze very well. If anyone tries it, I'd like a trip report.

Doug

DanS
03-30-2004, 03:38 AM
Best...reply...ever.

Dan

bad beetz
03-30-2004, 07:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but a nerd on the inside. Hide this when you go out to bang chicks.


[/ QUOTE ]



You're right...deep down, I'm pure nerd, although I guess you could substitute the word "goofball" just as easily. However, I'm not going to hide it when I go out. I think I have a higher +PV expectation by being me and hoping I get across some sort of assertive, goofy charm than by trying to adlib smoothness. Then again, when I've gone out West, I've found that your games have a lot more aggression, and playing it smooth may be the way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]


You are more than correct. Be yourself. Especially if you're looking for your soulmate, then it's espcially important to be yourself. If your just looking to screw, it may be a good idea to bend your image this way or that.

I'll try your drink, I saved the recipe.

boedeker
03-30-2004, 07:42 PM
I love trip story threads, but this is best ever.

Mike Gallo
03-30-2004, 11:51 PM
Doug,

Post of the year.

You must think of her as extremely special. She inspired a hell of a post.

J_V
03-31-2004, 02:30 AM
Just cuz your body knows how to catch a football doesn't make you a dumb or obnoxious person. Hating jocks is pretty fing shallow. And as a "jock" I'll keep all the hot women. Have fun w/ the mousey bookworms.

J_V
03-31-2004, 02:50 AM
We need to get all the bacholors down to the WSOP at the same time. If you plan on going, shoot me a PM. I don't have set plans except for snagging a triple draw and horse WSOP bracelet.

I think you made all the right moves and got unlucky. Your aggressive play is to be credited. I don't mess around below 7 much myself, leads to a lot of whiffs and the occasional homerun. You could call me the Dave Kingman of macking.

Clarky and Dynasty were really over-shooting their mark huh? Good guys for any game.

Al_Capone_Junior
03-31-2004, 08:12 AM
As a general stereotype, it's rarely wrong. it's the jock mentality I despise. This despite the fact I played basketball for years (and sometimes still do), and have been into marshall arts too. But there are plenty of hott women who see through the brutish football player types, so don't spend too much time patting yourself on the back, or hogging the mirror at the gym.

al

gonores
03-31-2004, 09:44 AM
I'm in the middle of trying diplomatically extract myself from graduation ceremonies (for reasons beyond wanting to high-tail it to Vegas the second my academic obligations are complete). I'll keep you updated. Sounds like a +PV situation.

I'm with you on the jock thing. Although I was outjocked that night, I've been on the other side of that situation on occasion as well. I think the reason the jock gets the ladies is because guys who stereotype jocks as dumbasses skew lower the expectations women have of jocks. Then, the second a jock shows sensitivity or insight, they (or "we," if I include myself) are golden.

Homer
03-31-2004, 10:53 AM
Have fun w/ the mousey bookworms.

You're missing out if you've never had fun with a bookworm. That's all I gotta say.

Al_Capone_Junior
03-31-2004, 03:32 PM
Yea the ones with the little intellectual looking glasses are my favs.

al

midas
03-31-2004, 04:17 PM
After the jock play - you need to bluff and go all-in with 2 words - "Trust Fund" - you're looking to win this hand and you're probably not going to play at this table for the rest of your life.

J_V
04-01-2004, 07:14 AM
What does PV stand for again?

Some comments, the hotter the girl is the less you can fawn over them. Every guy does that, you got to bring them down a touch. If you want to go all out, you actually have to insult them and lower their self-esteem. But that's onld news anyway.

I'm naturally, not gonna give any girl the upperhand so it fits my style. Plus I have the super nice kid look, which keeps me from looking like an [censored] even if I am being one.

There is a great NY times article about this. I couldn't find it, but it talks about the PUA's (pick up artist clubs) all over the world. If you can find it, it's a very entertaining read.

I tried to find it and couldn't.

J_V
04-01-2004, 07:52 AM
http://www.mysterymethod.com/NYT_article.htm

Being the worst web searcher ever..I pined through every page on the net and found it.


Probably mostly bullshit, but entertaining, I thought.

Herbal
04-07-2004, 03:03 PM
I assure you the article is 0% bullshit. I am friends with both the writer and Mystery. To prove it, I invite anyone here to come meet Mystery and watch his 2 hour seminar as my guest. It is April 16th 8pm-10pm in West Hollywood, CA. If you are interested, you may RSVP by e-mailing me at herbal@mysterymethod.com

I found this post because I saw in our traffic logs that people were coming from here. Hope to see some of you there...

Herbal

Gamblor
04-07-2004, 03:37 PM
You're missing out if you've never had fun with a bookworm. That's all I gotta say.

You mistook "bookworm" for "tapeworm".

Gamblor
04-07-2004, 03:52 PM
Jock = strong, confident, capable of protecting the woman and babies.
Brain = weak, shifty (due to fear), gets eaten by mammoth.

Having played semi-pro lacrosse and International junior hockey (thus being obnoxious jock - I have long since apologized re: my treatment of a few of the other kids at school), as well as a brief stint in the army, can tell you there's nothing they like more than being in your arms when you dwarf them. Even platonic friends.

Homer
04-07-2004, 03:56 PM
I don't get it.

nothumb
04-07-2004, 04:12 PM
True that, Gamb.

You want them to get the impression that you are ready at all times to fornicate and sow your demon warrior seed. But you can't actually use this expression or overtly give this impression. You must be a caveman cleverly restrained by years of social training.

Great post.

Rushmore
04-07-2004, 04:14 PM
When calculating PV, you must properly assess the honeypot odds.

That's it. I quit. I am ashamed of myself now. You people have corrupted me.

gonores
04-07-2004, 07:07 PM
I don't think we're as far off in our reasoning as you may think. I agree...chicks dig the jock. If you put a girl in a vacuum with a jock who has minimal social skills and an average-looking guy with a ton of charm, Mr. Charismatic isn't going to stand a chance.

However, sex doesn't usually occur in a vacuum (although that does sound intriguing in a kinky way). Women not only have to justify going home with a guy to themselves...they have to justify it with their friends, and "he was hot" isn't going to cut it in most situations (although there are exceptions to the rule). In the immortal words of Dave Chappelle, "Women are bitches" (see Season 1, "It's a Wonderful Chest"). That's why jocks need to give some ray of hope, some glimpse of sensitivity in order to get the girl. The assessment from the group means a lot to chicks.