Could this disadvantage be overcome?

[davidross]

I qualified for a freeroll rournament at Empire Poker via their VIP program. 100 people to play for a $30,000 prize that included the $25,000 buy in to the Bellagio 5 star tournament. When I got to my 1st table, I discovered that 6 people were not there. THey were simply blinded off. THE 4 remaining players were in seats 3, 5, 6 and 8. I was in seat 3. I recognized the advantage that seat 8 had right away, but until we played a couple of orbits I didn't understand just how big an advantage he had, and indeed every one of the other players ahd over me. On every round I was UTG 5 times, 2nd to act once, on the button twice and once each in each blind. In comparison, seat 8 had the button 5 times. After 6 orbits, very few hands were played to showdown, and seat 8 had over 2,000 chips, seat 6 had 1,700, seat 5 had 1,100 and i had 700. THe 6 empty seats were around 700 each. We played a lot of hands at each limit because we were 4 handed and the advantage just kept building and building for th eplayers in the better position. THe guy in 8 was clever and once he had the big stack kept pressuring me in particular. I eventually hooked up with him twice, losing with a full house to a bigger full house, and on my last hand with A9 against AJ, but I don't think I had any chance anyway given the unfair positional advantage.

Shouldn't there be a rule when that many people are absent to even up the tables somehow?

[unreal_ugn]

That's terrible. Was there a way for you to call a floor person or some support during the tournament? I don't see how they're expected to provide a fair tournament with this sort of thing.

[ThaSaltCracka]

my only advice is would be not to try to think your UTG, as real UTG's. I mean your first to act but, you shouldn't be. I would try to open up a little, be more aggresive. That is what it seems like seat 8 was doing. I mean if everyone is folding to him, calling, or min. raising to him, he should IMO, try to push people around.

I would play back at him if you can, he can't possibly have good hands the entire time. Just my 2 cents man.... that sucks though.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

All 4 of you had an advantage over somebody else who might have been at a full table. However, your advantage is MUCH smaller than that of seat 8. Still, it is an advantage as compared to those players all showing up. Thus, I do not think you have anything worthy of complaining about.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Al_Capone_Junior]

As usual, party/empire upgrades, and their software gets worse. they lead the industry in sucking major ass. I think your question about whether your positional disadvantage can be overcome is rhetorical. It's just a metaphorical way of saying "party/empire, you suck ass."

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
That's terrible. Was there a way for you to call a floor person or some support during the tournament? I don't see how they're expected to provide a fair tournament with this sort of thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't expect to create anything fair in their tournaments, because I honestly believe they are just too ignorant to know the difference and too greedy to care. Take their table balancing policy. You'll have four tables left and one will have seven, two ten, and one eight. I complained about this and got a "blow you off form letter" saying it's purposely built into their software that way, thanks to their latest "improvements." Then there's the hand for hand play when it's ten till the money. AKA slow the game way, way down near the bubble by letting the big stacks purposely stall and let the smaller stacks get fewer hands in, thus proportionately speeding up the game. Again, I complain, get blown off with form letter.

You know for all the fish on their site, i really wish I could find something good to say about party/empire, but it's HARD when they just keep on getting worse all the time.

al

[ThaSaltCracka]

if you guys hate these sites so much, why do you play on them?
I hated party and since switching to stars I have been much happier, but thats just me.

[Gamblor]

More idiots on Party = More income, but less fun.

Trade-off.

Everyone wants the best of both worlds.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
More idiots on Party = More income, but less fun.

Trade-off.

Everyone wants the best of both worlds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to think that, but now I am not sure. What I find on party is more idiots but also more very good players (probably because they can smell the idiots). PStars has more decent/mediocre players who I feel I am +EV against long term.

Just my observations, and from the point of view of having come (back) to party recently at the $50 buy-in and up level...

[VarlosZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Then there's the hand for hand play when it's ten till the money. AKA slow the game way, way down near the bubble by letting the big stacks purposely stall and let the smaller stacks get fewer hands in, thus proportionately speeding up the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this just another way of saying that the blinds are going up faster, or are you saying something I don't understand?

If it's the former, I agree that it's idiotic; if they're going to go hand for hand, they've got to extend the time between blind increases when they do it.

If it's the latter, could you explain what you mean, using small words (and possibly pictures)?

[ZeeJustin]

This is a huge advantage. A HUGE one. Obviously there is a player with a far greater advantage than yours, but I would be celebrating if I were you, not complaining.

[M.B.E.]

There were also a lot of players sitting out in the PokerStars top-1000 TLB freeroll on March 20. Probably over 300 of the 1000 entrants just weren't there. Since table assignments are random, the number of sitting-out players at each table varied. I know at one table seven players were sitting out. The two players actually there had a huge advantage -- that table didn't break until an hour or so into the tournament, when the sitting-out players finally went broke. One of the two players from that table who actually played went on to make the final table of the tourney (but not one of the top two spots).

I don't want to criticize Stars, since this was a freeroll after all, but if they run a TLB freeroll again next year (and I hope they do), they should require players to confirm their registration before the tournament begins.

[M.B.E.]

First, as others have said you were clearly at an advantage (not disadvantage) relative to someone else in the tournament at a full table.

Second, you could have partially neutralized your disadvantage vis-à-vis others at your table by playing very aggressively when first in. E.g. when you are UTG, you could have moved in with your top 25% of hands. That way, you'd win "your share" of the blinds of the sitting-out players. Even if the other players there realized what you were doing, it's hard for them to call without QQ, KK, or AA, because if they bust out they'd be giving up such an advantageous situation.