Hand for discussion

I have one nagging thought about how I played this hand. I won't say what it is yet, because I want to see if anyone else thinks similarly. I'd appreciate your comments.


3/6 online game. It's 8 handed. I am 3rd to act, and the player to my immediate left has posted a blind. I have 8h 8c.


Utg folds, then 2nd to act calls. I call, poster checks, and the cutoff raises. Button calls, and the blinds call. Then all the limpers (including the poster) call. 7 players see the flop for 2 bets each.


Flop is 9 4 2, with 2 clubs. It's checked to me. I bet. Poster calls, cutoff raises again, and it's folded around to me. I call, and the limper calls. 3 players see the turn for 2 more bets each.


Turn is an offsuit 4. I bet, poster calls, and cutoff now folds.


River is an offsuit 6. I check, poster bets, and I call.

Daniel,


My guess is you're wondering if you should've raised to drive out the poster preflop. He probably won with a four or two small pair. I think limping is fine. You want a lot of callers if you hit your set.


Just my thoughts,


Matt

With 7 callers, you missed your set, fold and live to play another day. As ragged as the flop was it hit sombody, maybe the pre-flop raiser sitting with pocket AA.

This is not automatic for me, but it is a different play. I will use this if I have J9 or a middling pair as you do -- but it's more automatic if I'm one of the "real" blinds.


I know a bet's comming from the cut-off. I might c/r on the flop to get the blind behind me out of this hand. However, since both blinds in front of you called the PF raise, it may be hard to get all the blinds out. It would be a nice play if it's checked to the CO they bet, the two blinds in front of you fold and you can raise.


If someone bets into the cut-off I would fold. If both blinds in front of you call, I might fold as well, depending on my read of them.


My guess is the blind behind you had A4 suited and took down the pot.

Matt and Magithighs are close -- I did end up losing this hand to a 4. It was T4o (remember he's the poster, and though I couldn't call preflop even getting 13:1, it's not /that/ fishy). And I agree that my preflop play is fine. Once there's a limper and a poster, I have to hope for a multiway pot.


My issue is with my flop play. First when the flop is this raggedy and 3 players checked to me, I think I could be best and the pot is big. I bet out, fully expecting (and hoping) the cutoff would (correctly IMO) raise the flop with overcards to protect my hand.


Then when it's folded around to me, I think I should have 3 bet. A few reasons:


1) Cutoff often will play this way without a pair. The preflop raise can be with suited cards or ace to build a pot, so there's no guarantee he's got a pair.


2) If cutoff does have a higher pair, the 3 bet means I'm unlikely to get bluffed on the turn. Also I might scare him enough to see the river cheap. Since the pot is big and my hand has some showdown value, that's not bad.


but most importantly:

3) If the poster had me beat then he would have raised my initial bet. He has to be on a draw here, and I should charge him. In this case, there's a solid chance he'd lay down middle pair no kicker in the face of a raising war.


What do you think? Is this a correct case of raising with the possible second best hand to increase my chances of winning the pot?


Dan

I like your play. However, this is a different play, I also like. But, I will use this when I have J9, or a middling pair as you do.


I know a bet's comming from the cut-off. I might c/r on the flop to get the blind behind me out of this hand. If someone bets into the cut-off I would fold.


My guess is the blind had A4 suited and took down the pot.

Aha ... suppose my hand wasn't 88, but was instead A9. Would you 3 bet in this situation with top pair top kicker?


Then consider that the blind shouldn't have a single pair of nines, and the preflop raiser isn't likely to have a 9 (A9s ... maybe, but it's unlikely compared to everything else he could have). 88 should be good just as often as A9.

here's 2 ways to do it...


if your limping in pre, and ya know the CO will bet, im c/r the flop. easy...ill put as much pressure as i can here to knock people out. betting out here wont necessarily get people out the way a c/r will.


im a little more aggressive when posters are in, so id probably raise preflop. there will be callers here, im sure. but you probably have the best hand right now too. make the J and Qs pay for coming in.


CO looks like he had slick to me.


just some ideas...


b

Here again knowledge of your opponents becomes invaluable. Ask yourself what types of hand the CO will raise with. Most everybody will raise w AA KK QQ JJ 1010, as well as AK, AQ AJ. That puts at least 5 hands he could have that have you beat preflop and only about 3 or so that you have beat.


Then, you are still hoping the flop hits you, but it didn't. Now you have a more difficult decision to make.


Maybe I play to tight but folding here is not that bad an option as it may save you a lot of bets in the long run when you are in a similar situation and are already beat and need to hit your two outs to trip up and win.


Comments would be appreciated as I'm still learning.

ChrisC.

there are many more hands the CO could be raising with too...he can be trying to buy the button also...the blinds will know that others will call his raise who already put in one bet...


he could be raising with JTs...Axs, small pkt pair ..etc, many hands are possible...


your thinking of this as an early position raise...its not...it late with limpers too him.


and by c/r the flop...youll know if he has AA or KK or such...and its a cheap street to find out. but it would/should get the bottom pairs out at least by the turn...


b