Loose Games / Aaron Lovi

Aaron Lovi had mentioned dropping a rack in a loose passive game with lots of calling stations. He played a tight game but it didn't matter, he still lost. Well, the same thing happened to me.


Aaron's solution was to start playing quite a bit looser pre-flop. Then he started winning. I saw that some of the responses to his post seemed to indicate that he just got lucky playing too loose.


However, I've seen other players who are big winners do exactly the same thing. They play preflop very loose 96o from MP for example. They also do something Aaron didn't mention-- they play VERY aggressively, raising with hands like T9s for example. On the flop and later streets they tighten up considerably but still play VERY aggressive. If someone else raises they either get out or reraise -- seems they never call. They are actually very hard to put on a hand.


I've seen a couple of guys play like this and walk away with a rack or two a few hours later. I myself have not yet tried playing like this in a real game. I have tried it on Turbo Holdem against a 'Mixed' lineup and I killed 'em. I could challenge Mike over 200 hands and make 3 times what he would make (I've done this several times). However, I get killed playing like this against a 'tough' lineup.


BTW, when one of these loose-aggressive players was in my game I kept waiting to get a decent hand so that I could play back at them. While I was waiting for a hand I just watched them take the chips. By the time I did get a hand they were cashing out.


I believe Mason has an article in Poker Essays or somewhere about playing loose and how one can learn more about poker playing this way than one can playing weak-tight. Doyle Brunson in SuperSystem also says that he had a loose-aggressive style.


Just curious if anyone here has tried playing this way and if they were successful (or unsuccessfull).

I believe the best way to play in this kind of game is to play looser but to be very aggressive post flop/turn/river. Take starting hands that have the potential to make showdown hands bigger than one pair. Hands like AK are not as valuable since you are up against 4-5 two pair draws. Hands like 9-10s are fine since you are drawing to hands that will have others drawing dead.


But the key is to pound once you get a hand and remember that you will lose a fair number of small bets on the hands you see the flop with and miss, so you'd better be making a lot back on the times you do connect with the flop.

You need to play looser as you're position gets better in these types of games. By playing too tight pre-flop, you are passing up way too many opportunity's. Suited connecters and one gapped are nice hands in a multi-way, unraised pot. Small and medium pairs are also great multi-way with a bit of aggression. The implied odds are great. You can often win back any losses and show a profit with one or two nice pots. Big pairs and A-k will get cracked more often, than in tight games, but don't get frustrated by this. They still win their fair share, and should be played aggressively.

I think the aggression in later rounds comes from the large number of draws and two pair that are so common in these games(any opinions on this?).

The key to this strategy is to get out if the flop doesn't hit you. You should still play tighter than your opponents, but not as tight as you would in a tight-aggressive game.

I used to favor the tighter games, but after I figured out the loose games, I found them to be my bread and butter. They are extremely prifitable, and a lot of fun.

Playing 96 off from middle position is absurd. But loosening up against weak-passive competition is certainly the right way to play. Hands like Ax suited, wired pairs, and suited connectors become playable from virtually every position, since there is only a small chance of a raise.


Drawing hands become very profitable when you can see the flop for only a single small bet. If you are a solid post-flop player, loosening your pre-flop standards will drastically increase your profits.


The profitable hands in this type of game are the drawing hands that I mentioned above; wired pairs, Ax suiteds, suited connectors (even single gap). Hands like A9o or KJo are rarely profitable, since they most often only make a pair. If a raise will not narrow down the field, you really don't lose anything by folding AJo behind three callers.


If you're going to loosen your starting standards, however, you need to be fairly certain that nobody will raise behind you. Playing low pairs and low suited connectors out of early position can cost a lot of money if the pot is raised and reraised behind you.

I like to raise it up with Ax suited from LP also. It does add to your fluctuations, but when you hit your flush and you have that many people tied to the pot, you can make some seriouse cake. The biggest pot I ever won in 4-8 hold'em occured when I raised preflop with A5s on the button, had 7 callers and 5 of them saw the river, with me hitting my flush on the turn and betting/raising the whole way. You just have to know to fold Ax when an ace flops unless you can be pretty confident you have the only ace. I don't really think you would be giving much up if you simply folded every time you didn't flop a draw, trips or two pair (or the unlikely full house). It took me a long time to realize that even a hand as tempting as ATo in LP with multiple callers can get me into trouble. I now usually fold hands like that. Suited connectors, especially 9T and up are my new favorite holdings (except for big pairs of course).

I agree with all that has been said here, except the comments of folding hands like AJ and AT in late position after a few callers. As Abdul Jalib has stated, if people are coming in with absolute trash, you have to raise them with both of these hands from late positions. If they are tight limpers you just call or even fold, but if they routinely come in on every single hand with garbage like T7 offsuit, then AJ is a monster. From my own experiences I would qualify this by saying that this works especially well when there are only a few limpers (2-4) in front of you. If I had 7 limpers in front of me, I would not raise with AJ or AT, no matter how much trash they played.

However, often times someone who has been calling EVERY SINGLE HAND will mechanically toss 'em in again before it gets to you. Everyone else has folded, but the one or two people who call every blind are "shrugging and calling" again, like they always do. Under this circumstance, to not raise with AJ or AT in late position is an absolute crime. Not to even mention folding it... On the other hand, if everyone and their mother calls before it gets to you, I would only call with AJ, and fold AT. But if they were suited I'd pop 'em both.


Tim

Hmm, You may be right here as far as the super loose pre flop callers are. When only 2-4 people limp, I might raise with AJ, probably not AT. When many people limp however, I hate to hold those hands. I often will fold, or call and fold if the flop doesn't hit me hard. I think this may be mostly from a few unfortunate hands I've had. I'll admit I don't know the hard data on these hands, so I am just acting on past experiences.

With loose passive players you need to loosen up your own requirements. If your opponents could have anything, A 10 is great!


Against loose but passive opponents you need to loosen up preflop (somewhat) and realize that drawing pockets gain value in this sort of game.


Against loose, passive, weak players that call with anything you need to get in there with A 10 and if you flop top pair (either one) you need to get in there and be aggresive.


You need to adjust to the game.

I would have to say my playing style is loose aggressive. I have had a lot of success at low limit online games up to 3-6 where you get 30% seeing the flop. I have been killed in tight games trying to play the same way.


You have to understand what cards play well in what situations and I think playing loose in these games works very well.


You can play T9o in middle position if there are a couple of limpers ahead of you, but don't open the pot with it. You probably aren't going to win with a pair of T's, so if you don't flop a shot at your straight get out.


Raise with your best hands and after you have shown some of them down, you can raise with a little less like JTs. Post flop raise when you are ahead or have viable draws when the field is still big. Make sure you win big pots.


See a lot of flops, and play tight post-flop. Of course this only works if your game is truly loose passive.

I have a regular opponent like the one you describe and have seen him a couple of times cashing a rack to rack-and-a-half of reds. But his trip to the ATM machine far out numbers his cashing out. And he is one of my favorite opponents.