Why should I pay SS/Medicare Tax when its going bankrupt??

[PuppetMaster]

As an 18 year old, I dont feel the need to subscribe to either of these two programs - both of which will bebankrupt long before I am able to collect.

Why does the government have the ability to force citizens to subscribe to such programs? Why cant I make my own decisions and live my own life?

I call for the privatization of America and the abolishment of the United States Government. I hate this hell hole.

[GWB]

I don't think Kerry supporters should pay SS/Medicare Taxes.

Then I can have Johnny A. put them in jail.

That's one less vote for Kery.

[jdl22]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the government have the ability to force citizens to subscribe to such programs? Why cant I make my own decisions and live my own life?

I call for the privatization of America and the abolishment of the United States Government. I hate this hell hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here I take issue. I'm not of the "you should love your country no matter what, if you don't like it move to China/Cuba/Russia/poor third world country X" crowd. In fact I think the opposite. One should point out all the negatives and positives of their country as well as others and being blindly patriotic is silly.

However, that's not what you're doing. What you are doing is complaining about paying taxes and then saying that you wish to move because of said taxes. To which country are you planning to move? Either you are going to a place that has a much worse standard of living, or you are going to a place with much more social programs and much higher taxes. It's pretty much that simple. Barring a few tax shelters where some super rich people live that are otherwise unlivable (sp?) there is nowhere to go. Unless your dad has a large stake in Haliburton or something similar you have little chance of finding a country with close to the standard of living and close to the low amount of taxes that we pay here.

As an American that has been abroad I think there are two issues that Americans shouldn't complain about:

1) high taxes - ours are some of the lowest in the civilized world. The Gini index which measures distribution of income indicates that the wealthy have a higher percentage of the national wealth than any non-arabian first world country. From this one could conclude that the government in the US government is interested much less in taxing for social programs and redistributing the wealth than its counterparts in Europe, Asia, and North America.

2) gas prices - they are ridiculously low here. Compare to average prices in these European countries source (http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/fuel/motfue001.html) :

England $2.63 (lowest listed in Europe)
France $4.60
Netherlands $5.48 (highest listed)
Germany $4.92
Greece $3.72
Ireland $4.19
Italy $4.87
Spain $3.73

Our $1.80 or so (just a guess as it was $1.63 on this web page but since prices have gone up) is a nothing compared to these countries.

Our taxes are similar. Complaining about something better here than virtually anywhere else seems strange to me. It would be like a North Shore surfer complaining that the waves are too big.

Granted, I am strange in that I would mind neither a tax increase (especially on the wealthy) nor higher gas prices (to induce people to stop making what I think are bad choices).

[PuppetMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does the government have the ability to force citizens to subscribe to such programs? Why cant I make my own decisions and live my own life?

I call for the privatization of America and the abolishment of the United States Government. I hate this hell hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here I take issue. I'm not of the "you should love your country no matter what, if you don't like it move to China/Cuba/Russia/poor third world country X" crowd. In fact I think the opposite. One should point out all the negatives and positives of their country as well as others and being blindly patriotic is silly.

However, that's not what you're doing. What you are doing is complaining about paying taxes and then saying that you wish to move because of said taxes. To which country are you planning to move? Either you are going to a place that has a much worse standard of living, or you are going to a place with much more social programs and much higher taxes. It's pretty much that simple. Barring a few tax shelters where some super rich people live that are otherwise unlivable (sp?) there is nowhere to go. Unless your dad has a large stake in Haliburton or something similar you have little chance of finding a country with close to the standard of living and close to the low amount of taxes that we pay here.

As an American that has been abroad I think there are two issues that Americans shouldn't complain about:

1) high taxes - ours are some of the lowest in the civilized world. The Gini index which measures distribution of income indicates that the wealthy have a higher percentage of the national wealth than any non-arabian first world country. From this one could conclude that the government in the US government is interested much less in taxing for social programs and redistributing the wealth than its counterparts in Europe, Asia, and North America.

2) gas prices - they are ridiculously low here. Compare to average prices in these European countries source (http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/fuel/motfue001.html) :

England $2.63 (lowest listed in Europe)
France $4.60
Netherlands $5.48 (highest listed)
Germany $4.92
Greece $3.72
Ireland $4.19
Italy $4.87
Spain $3.73

Our $1.80 or so (just a guess as it was $1.63 on this web page but since prices have gone up) is a nothing compared to these countries.

Our taxes are similar. Complaining about something better here than virtually anywhere else seems strange to me. It would be like a North Shore surfer complaining that the waves are too big.

Granted, I am strange in that I would mind neither a tax increase (especially on the wealthy) nor higher gas prices (to induce people to stop making what I think are bad choices).

[/ QUOTE ]
I was only complaining about having to pay SS/Medicare. When these programs go bankrpt am I going to get a refund check in the mail?
Most of the laws and rules in the world are based on the principle "Without the Rich and Powerful telling the stupid and poorer what to do they will be completely lost".

I dont need the government to force me to save for retirement, or to save me from drug use, or gambling.

Protect the country, clean the enviroment, hand out food stamps to rednecks who dont want to work for a living and stay out of my life.

[CCass]

[ QUOTE ]
Protect the country, clean the enviroment, hand out food stamps to rednecks who dont want to work for a living and stay out of my life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. All those rednecks in the inner city ghettos need their food stamps.

[jokerswild]

...because GWB wants the worker to pay everything, and the rich zero. It's part of his fascist vision for America. Ideally, according to crooks like Bush, the corporations and the rich pay zero, while the middle pays everything. Once the middle is destroyed by outsourcing, then the work camps will start springing up with "Work makes Freedom" on the outside.

[jdl22]

[ QUOTE ]
...because GWB wants the worker to pay everything, and the rich zero. It's part of his fascist vision for America. Ideally, according to crooks like Bush, the corporations and the rich pay zero, while the middle pays everything. Once the middle is destroyed by outsourcing, then the work camps will start springing up with "Work makes Freedom" on the outside.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am as liberal as anyone I know which is a statement considering that I lived in Eugene, Oregon for 5 years. I agree with your anger. However, even after Bush's ridiculous tax cuts take effect the US will still have a progressive tax system. It is not nearly as progressive as it should be and favors the rich more than any other first world country. As I mentioned above the distribution of wealth here is more scewed than every industrialized country outside of the middle east. His tax plan is terrible, but it does not involve anywhere near the workers paying everything and the rich nothing. The rich still pay a higher percentage than the poor (as they should).

We should rise above the level of our opponents and not say things that are not accurate in order to convince people that we are right. The truth is on our side.

[adios]

You're concerns are most certainly valid. It's laughable how other posters chastise you for pointing out something that is extremely relevant.

A Social Security/Medicare trust fund primer (http://www.wilder.org/goodage/SocialSecurity/ss601.html)

Medicare and social security are supposed to provide for our retirement needs in healthcare and income, at least to some extent. If we contribute our income dollars towards that end we should have the expectation of realizing the benefits of doing so. However, if the programs are insolvent when our retirement rolls around we've been cheated. We would have been much better receiving the money ourselves and socking it away is we saw fit in order to pay for our retirement needs. Medicare and Social Security are not really taxes technically. They're supposed to be income deferred for the purposes of accumulating retirement benefits. We all know in actuality they're taxes which makes them a government scam IMO. There's a big difference between deferring income (thus current consumption) for future consumption and paying a tax. The fact of the matter is that a young person entering the work force today, would be much better of putting the money that they pay to the feds for social security and medicare in privatized accounts. The reason the government can't possibly let this happen is that those young people entering the work force today are paying for the benefits of those entereing retirement today. What it should be is that the money deferred by those entering retirment today should be paying for their retirement benefits but that's not what's happening.

[adios]

Anybody receiving a W-2 has little choice in the matter /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[andyfox]

"The rich still pay a higher percentage than the poor"

Only if you consider just the income tax. When the impact of all other taxes are taken into consideration (social security, sales, excise, state and local, etc.), we basically have a flat tax already in place in America.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
You're concerns are most certainly valid. It's laughable how other posters chastise you for pointing out something that is extremely relevant.


[/ QUOTE ]

Adios I normally agree with you but in this case I believe you are missing pertinent information. The original poster is an 18 year old college student who had no earned income last year. He is whining about something he hasn't even paid into yet. I feel no sympathy for him until he at least gets a job.

Wake

[BadBoyBenny]

Adios, I totally agree with you that Social Security is a bad investment.

What I think is absurd is the assumption that people on this board are taking for granted. Where is the evidence that Social Security will be bankrupt by the time an 18 year old is retired?

Projections show that it will be underfunded in 2034 - 2037 (depending where you look) and we would have to raise the payroll tax by 1-2% or lower benifits some.

This is a problem, but it is a long way off, and projections could change as time goes on maybe up - maybe down, but historically the trustees have been very conservative. Even if the system hits a deficit sooner, in no way means that today's youths will not get a dime.

[PuppetMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're concerns are most certainly valid. It's laughable how other posters chastise you for pointing out something that is extremely relevant.


[/ QUOTE ]

Adios I normally agree with you but in this case I believe you are missing pertinent information. The original poster is an 18 year old college student who had no earned income last year. He is whining about something he hasn't even paid into yet. I feel no sympathy for him until he at least gets a job.

Wake


[/ QUOTE ]
This makes no sense whatsoever. I am going to be paying taxes into a program that will be bankrupt as early as 2028.

And by the way, I just paid my 2003 Taxes and the first estimated payment of 2004, so I very much have reason to complain.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
And by the way, I just paid my 2003 Taxes and the first estimated payment of 2004, so I very much have reason to complain.


[/ QUOTE ]

Must I locate the thread where you wrote that all your 2003 income was from poker income and that you had never filed taxes before? Now if you filed 2004 estimated taxes that has nothing to do with FICA nor Medicare payments which is what this post is about.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
This makes no sense whatsoever. I am going to be paying taxes into a program that will be bankrupt as early as 2028.

[/ QUOTE ]

Medicare will be insolvent earlier than that.

[ QUOTE ]
And by the way, I just paid my 2003 Taxes and the first estimated payment of 2004, so I very much have reason to complain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured you must be one that pays taxes and yeah I think you do have a right to complain.