Two pair

$.50/1.


Typical LL Paradise players. Holdem.


Hero dealt QhTh in SB One EP, two MP, SB, and BB all in for one bet.


Flop comes Ts9s9d. SB bets, BB and two MP call.


Turn is 2d. SB bets. BB raises. all fold. Winner BB does not show cards.


Should I have raised on flop with pair on board?

Should I have bet out on turn and then fold after I was raised? Only four outs and no pot odds.....but was I too timid?


I figured I was beat and that it would cost me the turn raise plus river bet.


Newbie here and first post with a question.


Thanks. Been reading your posts and have learned from them.


Don

Here are my answers to your questions:


1. "Should I have raised on the flop with a pair on the board."


You were not able to raise the flop bet because you were in the small blind and bet the flop yourself. Your flop bet is correct in my opinion. It appears that only one player, the early player, folded. You got called in 3 spots. This could mean that someone has a nine and is waiting until the turn to pull the trigger or that your opponents are all drawing and your hand is good. At this point you don't know.


2. "Should I have bet out on the turn and folded after being raised."


Yes. I believe this is exactly what you did. You bet what good still be the best hand. When you get raised after a blank comes on the turn, I would think you were beat if not by trip nines by a bigger ten.


I think you played correctly.

Tough decision for you. I think on the low limits you don't want to give your opponents an opporunity to "bluff" you.


I think your flop bet is the absolute correct decision.


Once everyone calls your flop bet, have to assume there's a 9 out there and want to find out where it is without paying anything. I would check the turn. The reason I check the turn is because I can walk away cheaply, when the BB bets and everyone folds, or if it's two bets cold to me.


The check on the turn also sets up one my favourite plays. But I need consistency to make this work. I need to consistently bet the flop, check the turn. In the SB, if I have the 9 or T, I bet out on the flop. Either way I then check the turn. If there is more than one player, I then raise. Heads up, I wait until the river.


Also note that the BB raise does not mean they have a 9. He'll raise with JJ, QQ, even AK. Alot of LL players will not raise with these hands from the BB, but will be the crap out of them on the flop/turn even when they are big losers. So, if you can read the BB, you might want to re-raise his raise. But you have to be sure he can lay down cards -- these people are trully rare in LL PP.

Check/call or check/fold on flop, there are just too many possible winners out there already.

Even if u hit your K for an example so is 9, K not very unlikely...

>$.50/1.


>Typical LL Paradise players. Holdem.


>Hero dealt QhTh in SB One EP, two MP, SB, and BB

>all in for one bet.


>Flop comes Ts9s9d. SB bets, BB and two MP call.


>Turn is 2d. SB bets. BB raises. all fold. Winner

>BB does not show cards.


>Should I have raised on flop with pair on board?


I would check-fold. You are probably beaten by a better T, a 9, or you will be beat by the river by a straight or flush. The combination of possibilities that you are already beat or will be beaten makes this a bad flop for your hand.


An option you can take is to check-call the flop (if you don't think you will--or cannot be--checkraised from behind). Now if a card which is favorable for your hand comes off on the turn, you can bet out.


>Should I have bet out on turn and then fold

>after I was raised? Only four outs and no pot

>odds.....but was I too timid?


It's rare that a low-limit player is bluffing you when he waits until the turn to raise with this. It happens, but not often enough to spend $2 to call down.


>I figured I was beat and that it would cost me

>the turn raise plus river bet.


>Newbie here and first post with a question.


>Thanks. Been reading your posts and have learned

>from them.


>Don

Thanks guys. You have given me much to think about. This two pair thing on the flop comes up a lot. Your analysis has shown me that I must think more at the table.


Glad my new wireless ISP allows me to access 2+2. I couldnt do it before. I can see I have much to learn, but I know where to find help now. Isnt it funny how others can be more objective about our play than we ourselves can :=)


Thanks again very much.


Don

Check/call or check/fold on flop, there are just too many possible winners out there already.

Well, Maybe, but yours is one of those posible winners.


If you are going to chk/fold this flop you should just fold it pre-flop. And that choice is fine, if you so chose it. This is not a "great" flop for your hand, but it is a good flop. This has to be within the top 25% of possible flops (for Q-10s). Bet for information combined with the chance you have the best hand.


If you check they could bet a worse ten, a strt draw, a flush draw, a low pocket pair, overcards and a gutter str draw (AK, AQ, AJ). If you are gonna let all those boys push you around, just fold before the flop and wait for your group 1 hands when you are out of position like this.


This discussion illustrates the confusion of marginal hands out of position. Checking gives no information, but betting could run into a better hand. Cést la vie.


Even if u hit your K for an example so is 9, K not very unlikely...


Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about here.


May you always play your best,

Treefrog