what's your poker wisdom?

[nykenny]

Hiya all the good people. i want to start something interesting here, in reaction to all the dull posts flooding 2+2 lately. and let's bring life back to the Hold'em General (forum, duh...)!

So, what is your Poker word of wisdom or phase of wisdom? Please either respond to this thread of start your own thread if you feel the topic is big enough

Suggestion: try to share some insights that you believe is an extention of an existing concept, or some new philosophy that you have developed, or new knowledge that is little known by most. But if you wish to emphasize on some known concepts, that's ok too. As long as you have some strong opinion on this topic.

Example: If you are reraised by SB after open raising on the button, you should cap most of the time if your hand is a legit raising hand on the button. (it's an example)

Note: It doesn't have to be Texas Hold'em specific, but of course most of us here are more interested in hold'em then others.

[turnipmonster]

my favorite quote in general (applies to poker):

"When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail".

specific wisdom (this is only for big bet poker). AK is one of the easiest hands to put someone on if you can reraise them preflop. usually if they have JJ-AA their action is pretty quick, as they know if they are going to reraise, call or fold. if they have AK, they have to figure out if you have AA or KK, so they will usually stop to think before calling.

also, when someone is initially looking at their cards, people generally look only for a second if they have a hand like a pocket pair, particularly aces.

the reliability of these tells of course varies.

--turnipmonster

[gonores]

"Poker (especially low-limit) is nothing more than the brute application of a science."

~me

[Sarge85]

"95% of the time raise the nut flush draw if you are on the button, and there are at least 3 others in the pot."

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
"Poker (especially low-limit) is nothing more than the brute application of a science."

~me

[/ QUOTE ]
Like /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Similarly, i call "job interviewing skills" a form of art /images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

Kenny

[pokeryogi]

P.Y.B.G.A.T.T.

[ZeeJustin]

I.T.P.G.O.L.W.A.T.R

- In the poker game of life, women are the rake.

[Nottom]

I think this statement is likely true even if you eliminate everything after the comma.

[kiemo]

"Know when to hold them, know when to fold them" - Ben Franklin

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
"Know when to hold them, know when to fold them" - Ben Franklin

[/ QUOTE ]

Ben Franklin said a lot of things, but this one was said by Kenny Rogers

[harboral]

Life is, at best, a gamble.

Poker is a life, not a game.

Hey, make sure those chips enjoy where they are for now, because eventually they will be going home with me.

[Warik]

"Luck is a good poker player's worst enemy."
-Paraphrased from TOP

[MrDannimal]

You can't win the tourney on the first day, but you can sure as hell lose it.

(you can swap "first day" for any term that covers the opening stage of the tourney, so first few limits, first few hours, whatever).

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I.T.P.G.O.L.W.A.T.R

- In the poker game of life, women are the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

i heard this one from "Rounders". is that where it's originated? it has some truths to it, hehe.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
P.Y.B.G.A.T.T.

[/ QUOTE ]
= play your best game at all time?

[thirddan]

Play your best game all THE time? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Styles]

WoW it's like a Signature thread /images/graemlins/grin.gif

"Lock you your backdoor and run for you life!"

[arvin]

If you are out for revenge, you might as well dig two graves.

[onegymrat]

Hi Kenny,

[ QUOTE ]
So, what is your Poker word of wisdom or phase of wisdom?

[/ QUOTE ]Poker (although mathematical, scientific, statistical, serious and at times gut-wrenchingly frustrating) is still only a game kept score by money. You have to remember to have fun playing. If you find yourself losing sleep over a bad run, or losing personal relationships over conflicts, etc., perhaps a break is in order. I have recently come across many players that seem to forget that this game can be very enjoyable.

[VarlosZ]

I like Sklansky's quote in TOP: "So again, do not raise in no-limit hold 'em, especially tournaments, if there is a reasonable chance that a reraise will make you throw up."

It can be applied, metaphorically, to many walks of life.

[bicyclekick]

I guess the only wisdom i'd have to offer...and something I was bad about when I was a new guy, is ALWAYS, and yes I mean ALWAYS have enough bets in front of you to cap every street.

I always went with a certain amount I was willing to lose, so I'd buy in for that amount, and when I'd be low I'd just play with low...and end up all in. I think that made a huge difference in winning or losing in a night....I never had any more chips to push in on my good hands.

If you get low, either re-buy if you can handle losing more or quit right there, cause you're probably just going to lose what you have in front of you eventually because you'll have a 'small' downswing and lose it all because you didn't win enough on your good hand.

[bunky9590]

"Do not use cannon to kill mosquito!" I just like confucious' sayings.

"If its good enough to call, you should seriously consider raising." Dave Sklansky
(I love this one the best!)

[bdk3clash]

(One of the regular Small Stakes posters said something to this effect, which greatly helped my game.)

Bet the river for value; worry about it later.

The point is, you'll be called down by such a vastly inferior range of hands that missing bets for fear of made draws/better hands is -EV.

While it's true that you should only (value) bet hands on the end that you want to be called with, at low limits, believe me, you want to be called.*

*Hand histories have revealed that I have been called down with the nut low.

[scotnt73]

if it has to have the word "tasteful" to describe it then it probably isnt

[1800GAMBLER]

Something to the effect of 'My edge comes from playing better cards than my opponents.' - Bob Ciaffone on NL.

Online NL (100BB stacks) could really be beaten so simply by just playing AA KK QQ for force and every other pocket for sets.

[spamuell]

Although this isn't a direct poker quote, it certainly applies to poker:

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

I don't know where this quote originates from, but there's nothing more important than game selection in poker. Of course, at the moment game selection is not so crucial as many games are beatable.

[Sloats]

Everyone thinks they good at sex and poker. Few are good at either.

[NLfool]

I like Jay's quote because it is so true but I know Jay doesn't play like that /images/graemlins/smile.gif

In online low NL (500 or less) way overbetting the nuts is not a mistake.

Never slow play NL online

Don't get committed with bottom 2 pair in NL

In NL having a maniac to your left is a good thing (ie he does the betting gets cold calls from non believers and you can pop it when it gets back to you, lots of dead money)

Don't chase too many draws with paired boards NL or limit

late in tourneys don't play to move up the ladder

Don't go to war with JJ or 1010 in NL, limit, or tourney

[Mikey]

"No set. No bet." -T.J. Cloutier

[Cipher]

1)If tight beats loose and aggressive beats passive, why would you ever choose to play against people who are tighter and more aggresive than you?

2)let the cards come to you

[Joe Tall]

"My pops said, 'You have to learn to make money the hard way, you have to earn it.'
So I started playing poker."

After dragging a small pot:
"You can't go broke makin' a profit!"

And my all time favorite:
"Weather your rich or poor, it sure feels good to have a lot of money."

-Al London, 79 yr old, Foxwoods regular

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

Tilt clouds you thinking. There is no reason to dwell on the past when the decision is in front of you. You put yourself in -EV situations when on tilt or have clouded thought.

When you are running bad, it's even more crucial to stay away from tilt.

This is why I have brought myself to believe that bad beats are not 'bad' they are good. You should truely understand what brings you a bad beat and how your opponent loses money making such calls. The more you understand and practice this the easier it will become.

With some help from Homer you can learn more by reading this: Enjoy a Bad Beat (http://www.riveredagain.com/articles.htm#Tall_Enjoy_a_Bad_Beat)

Now if I could only stop beating myself up for missing bets, I'd have real clear thinking. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Peace,
Joe Tall

[CCass]

"Bring the big guns to the big wars!"

I know Hellmuth says this, but it makes a lot of sense in NL games. Rare is the time that I am willing to risk my entire stack (or a least a good portion of it) on a hand that is potentially the 2nd or 3rd best hand.

[J.A.Sucker]

[haakee]

That's exactly what I tell newbies when I can only give them one piece of advice as well.

[bigpooch]

"Concentrate on everything when you're playing". Guess who
wrote that?

Then, once you determine how a player thinks, he might as
well be playing with most of his hands face up!

[jdl22]

If you aren't sure...
- preflop whether to fold or call fold
- preflop whether to call or raise raise
- on the flop whether to bet or check-raise check-raise
- ditto for turn
- on the river whether to fold or call call
- on the river whether to check or bet bet

My problem is this:
Saying is one thing, doing another.

[Dylan Wade]

Sell stuff on ebay if you can't afford being a fishy

[Catch of the Day]

HAHAHAHAHAH

[Catch of the Day]

Alright, I got one for all the cultured people out there...

"Was mich nicht umbrinct, macht mich starker!" -Ben Franklin, OOPS! I mean -Nietze

Foriegn Language for 1000 Alex? Any guesses?

Hint: It could be applied directly toward Bad-beats...Just ask JT about his "Good Beats."

Catch-

[DanTheCardMan]

(I'm a relative newbie, so take this FWIW)

Let the size of the pot guide your decision. The bigger the pot the better it is to go for it and see what happens.

Almost always bet your draws, especially when they're good and you have additional outs.

Let the cards come to you; don't go chasing.

Get your chips to the middle as fast as possible when you know you have the best of it.

[Trix]

What doesn´t kill me, makes me stronger.

Something like that.

[DocStyle]

For tourney play - the Tholian Defense. Let's you and him fight!

Why get in the middle of people playing like it's showdown mode with marginal hands? I see it all the time, and they all get caught in the spooky jar eventually. I'll watch and finish in the money, thanks /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
If you aren't sure...
- preflop whether to fold or call fold
- preflop whether to call or raise raise
- on the flop whether to bet or check-raise check-raise
- ditto for turn
- on the river whether to fold or call call
- on the river whether to check or bet bet

My problem is this:
Saying is one thing, doing another.


[/ QUOTE ]
there is wisdom in your wisdom! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[nykenny]

[blackaces13]

I usually follow the Scotty Nygen philosophy of, "Keep dem Michelob coming baby."

Also, sometimes I like to raise out of the SB in a 2/4 game with 83o. Then I turn to the BB and say, "You can't call dat... too much fah you." Then I stand up and tell the railbirds, "This gonna be the best poker move I ever make."
Then I start talking about playing blackjack.

Works everytime.

[chesspain]

Unless I held the near-nuts, I used to be afraid to value bet the river, given my tendency to look for monsters and the difficulties I had folding to a raise. Now, however, against average or unknown opponents heads up, I will almost always bet the river if I believe I have the better hand, and I will almost always call if I am raised . It's amazing how liberating this has been. And I'm sure that this has been a +EV change for me in comparison to my former river-weak-tightie self.

[Monty Cantsin]

I haven't been playing long enough to develop any wisdom. But I did come up with something potentially useful the other day. I found it difficult to escape results-bound thinking during a session. I would always think "am I ahead? am I behind?". I needed a new metric to measure my play. So I made a little chart and started to keep track of my mistakes. It looks like this:
http://www.decisionproblem.com/mistakes.gif
Every time I'm pretty sure I've done something wrong, I add a tick to the chart. Not based on the outcome of the hand, but based on that twinge of micro-guilt that comes a few moments (or sometimes immediately) after making a fairly obvious blunder.

Now my goal for a session is to score zero on the mistake chart. And unlike win rates, these results are immediately relevant - no waiting for 10,000 hands before you can draw conclusions!

In addition to giving me a structure for staying focussed on evaluating my play, it also lets me see what kind of mistakes I'm making. In my case, I was a little surprised to see that I was making more call/bet/raise mistakes than fold/missed bet mistakes. I think I'm too afraid of not being aggressive enough, which makes me your typical bully-who's-really-a-coward. How's that for wisdom? WE ALL LEARNED A VALUABLE LESSON!

/mc

[astroglide]

brilliant idea, seriously. i just printed it.

[WillMagic]

A good limit hold'em player...

doesn't remember the last time he was the first player to call two bets cold...

and doesn't remember the last time he posted a bad beat on an internet forum.

Will

[Dov]

I love it. Great idea. This one should be added to the books.

[PDosterM]

"I'm not a strong enough player to play bad cards."

Truth: Pretty much nobody is.

Warik, I cannot recall that quote or how accurate your paraphrase is. But I'm posting my chip-and-a-chair experiences under Psychology to dispute that.

[Mike Haven]

Hot Decks.

If you are playing in a "normal" 0.50-1 you will find that all Ax and Kx will call pre-flop.

As you now "know" fourteen cards, and therefore that there are three Aces or three Kings in the unknown 38 cards, (instead of the usual unknown 50 cards), you have a "Hot Deck" situation where, if it's folded to you in the cut off, and you have A with an unsuited 7 or lower, or K with an unsuited 9 or lower, or K with a suited 4 or lower, you can come in with a confident raise.

[dana33]

Excellent. The sort of thing that makes one say, "Why didn't I think of that?" But I'm glad you did. Thanks for sharing this.

[deacsoft]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

I think you guys are getting too excited over this and that to call it "brilliant is an overstatement. The concept has potential, but a tally on a chart saying I made a loose call on the turn is not going to help my game 3 months later. I think you need to be aware of the situation and what and who caused you to make a move worthy of marking on a chart of wrong plays. I look at that chart after an hour of playing... and what does it tell me? Pay more attention to the betting after the flop? Don't fold to bets on the river? These are things that are so basic everyone should already know them or be having a blast in the play money rooms untill they have enough bonus points to buy a clue. There is no background to make that kind of information useful. It's not a bad idea... it just needs to be expanded.

For now, I'll just keep sending hand histories to my coach and a few other respected opinions. They'll let me know the details.

As for my wisdom...
Everyone should randomly print out a couple 100 hand histories a day and review them personally, post questions (if you don't have a coach or someone to review them or if you just want some other opinions), absorb the replies, and correct the play.

The only way you get better is to plug the holes. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[astroglide]

bullshit. it promotes good play when you've got it sitting in front of you, you have a pen, and you know you're going to be writing on it. if you use one for each session you can flip through them and see if you're reducing marks, changing where they are, etc. it can IN NO WAY harm, and is a very good idea.

[Dov]

You missed the point. The point is to be decision oriented, not results oriented.

If you keep score of good decisions vs. bad decisions, you can make better decisions at the table regarding your current ability to play than by constantly checking your stack size.

[Dov]

"If it weren't for bad beats, I'd never play poker."
-Blackaces13

Reprinted with permission from his post.

[bisonbison]

For me, a lot of maintaining good play boils down to: "It's just chips". Decisions are made for small bets or big bets or chips. They're not made for money.

Money's just the unit of exchange.

[Joe826]

Nietzsche!?! That's my quote:

"And as the lesser surrendereth himself to the greater that he may have delight and power over the least of all, so doth even the greatest surrender himself, and staketh- life, for the sake of power.

It is the surrender of the greatest to run risk and danger, and play dice for death." - Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

[Punker]

There are no good or bad hands. Just good or bad situations.

[deacsoft]

I never stated that it was harmful... and never said that no one should do it. Jesus, if all it takes is a pen and paper to make you play better then by all means do it!

All I'm saying is I want to no more about the mistake when I make one.

[yoeddy]

Well I'm a total newbie!

Can't really argue with the first one..

I'm interested in why you always bet your draws. Surely a free card is often better? Do you mean in order to elicit folds?

I'd be interested to hear opinions about this.

My best offering is 'never play poker with a man named Doc'.
Oh and TJ CLoutier apparently said...

Draws are death.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
Warik, I cannot recall that quote or how accurate your paraphrase is. But I'm posting my chip-and-a-chair experiences under Psychology to dispute that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've made a note in my PDA to find the page for you tonight. I'll post it here when I do. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
I never stated that it was harmful... and never said that no one should do it. Jesus, if all it takes is a pen and paper to make you play better then by all means do it!

All I'm saying is I want to no more about the mistake when I make one.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.decisionproblem.com/mistaeks.gif

/mc

[Dov]

LOL

Play nice.

[scotnt73]

classic /images/graemlins/grin.gif

good stuff

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Warik, I cannot recall that quote or how accurate your paraphrase is. But I'm posting my chip-and-a-chair experiences under Psychology to dispute that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've made a note in my PDA to find the page for you tonight. I'll post it here when I do. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Crap. I can't find it. I KNOW I didn't make that up (or maybe I did? man I'm brilliant). If I ever find it I'll post it here.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
Online NL (100BB stacks) could really be beaten so simply by just playing AA KK QQ for force and every other pocket for sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jay, do you really mean that every SB could be folded, AK mucked on the button, you could check/fold 99 on a 664 flop, etc., and come out ahead just by playing AA/KK/QQ and sets? It's hard for me to believe, since those hands come around so rarely.

[Gurney]

You can't win if you don't stay in.

[Mike Haven]

let's say you always go all in for $100 pre-flop every time you catch AA

you catch AA 4x3 in 52x51 hands, = 12 in 2652, = 1 in 221 hands

to receive AA 100 times you need to play 22,100 hands

if blinds are 2-4 you pay 22,100/10 x 6 = 13,260 total blinds

let's say one player always calls your every all in

you win 85 times out of 100 with AA

so you win 8500 and lose 1500 = 7,000

blinds paid less winnings = 13,260 - 7000 = -6,260

per hand played = -6,260/22,100

loss = 28 cents per hand played

add in similar calculations for KK, QQ, etc, plus some return of blinds in won hands, and as long as you continue to play against players who don't notice that every time you go all in you turn over a pair of Aces, etc, then, in theory, it looks like you could follow this strategy

the bad news is that it is all theory

games like this don't exist in reality

so you have to start adding in some lesser hands to hide your strategy

and some bluffs

and guess what?

eventually you find that you have to get back to having to play poker with proper strategy to win at the game!

e&oe

[deacsoft]

I have to bow down to you on that one, Monty. That was one of the smoothest/funniest things I've ever read on 2+2. Well done.

For the record... *know /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[nykenny]

i agree. this is a very good idea / approach. I have done similar when at one point I was playing poorly. Now i am too stuck up to do it, but deep down, i know i am not that good. so i might start counting mistakes again /images/graemlins/smile.gif

very good one

[Leave_it_2_Beav]

"There are a few things that are so unpardonably neglected in our country as poker....Why, I have known clergymen, good men, kindhearted, liberal, sincere, and all that, who did not know the meaning of a "flush." It is enough to make one ashamed of one's species."

~Mark Twain

[UTGunner]

Hey Beav,

Did you know that one of the actors from the "Leave It To Beaver" TV show, Frank Bank is a competitive poker player?

[limon]

some people say my advice sucks and that may very well be. there are some very good players on this forum and i hope to never be at the same table as any of them. (except mason so i can make fun of him later)

[Alporfavor]

Even a maniac gets dealt AA from time to time

[CrackerZack]

Monty's idea is tremendous. I'm going to start doing that also because I know I do it a few times a session, sometimes a lot a session and I know I need to stop, but I get (insert emotion here) and want to play. Very good stuff monty for all the reasons astro mentioned.

One of the guys I used to play with a lot would often say "there are no bad cards, only bad flops" which was pretty amusing I thought due to its relative truth. We all know that any 2 don't win enough to show long term profit, but it sure is what guides someone with 83s to call a raise PF to see if their suit comes.

For these boards in particular, my one piece of advice is this... if the poster's advice is worded in an arrogant, obnoxious and/or demeaning way, don't automatically dismiss it because the poster is an ass. Some of the best players/posters on this forum rarely post another way and while it may bruise the ego a bit to have them mock you, read the advice and consider its merits, many of it is really good.

[Gramps]

Okay, I'm ripping off Bob Rotella. Best poker book I ever read (other than HEFAP) is Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect. When you're engaged in an endeavor with high variance in results, you can't let negative results worsen your process for subsequent events (shots in golf, hands in poker).

Be process-oriented, not results-oriented. You control your own mindset, decide (and practice) having a positive mindset, and be committed to having good process on the current/next hand regardless of what just transpired...

...at least that's what I keep telling myself after getting Rivered a couple of times in a row... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Sarge85]

"Checking and Calling is rarely the correct way to make money in Holdem"

S&M - HEFAP

Somewhere I read - (and for the life of me I can't find it) someone said to effect -

"It's not that I play better poker than others, but I play better cards PF, so my outcome will naturally be better."

I'm butchering that I'm sure - I thought it was in TOP but I can't find it - if someone knows the exact quote - let me know please!

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Lori]

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

My favorite too, I use it when talking about baseball betting on betfair. (and it's true)

A variation on the losing a tourney on the first day thing that I use is:
"Nobody ever won a tournament when they were not present at the final table"

One that applies to posts here that I use often:

"I'd rather know something twice than not at all"

Finally:

"If you have to ask whether you should give up your job to play poker, you shouldn't"

Lori

[JTrue]

NOt sure

[JTrue]

What, YEA

[JTrue]

LOL this is great

[ApolloQuiet]

Not sure if this has been used, haven't looked through all the replies yet....

Everyone has to believe in something, I believe I'll raise.

[Sarge85]

I'm ripping off davidross - but this is true on so many levels:

1) Other players bad play will make me far more money than my fancy or brilliant plays.
2) The guy that leads with a bet on the turn after not betting previously, has a big hand.
3) Folding costs me nothing pre-flop. If it’s a close decision, I can’t go far wrong by folding. (I need to tape this to the computer)


Sarge /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[astroglide]

The guy that leads with a bet on the turn after not betting previously, has a big hand.

i think that is usually false

[Packerfan1]

3 of my favorite poker truisms

"Low Limit Poker is a game of repeatedly hitting monkeys over the head with a rusty wrench."

"Poker is one of God's way of moving money from stoopid people to smarter people"

"Money moves from the impatient to the patient"

Ohhhhhhmmmmmmm, Ohhhhhmmmmmmm..... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pack