Flopped the non-immortal nuts on the button....how to proceed?

[CMP]

Live $3-6, typically extremely loose passive calling.

I pick up J /images/graemlins/heart.gif10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the button and limp along with 7 or 8 total.

Flop comes out 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

It's bet and called to me in many places.

Raise here or call/raise the turn? Raise (here or turn, actually) is not likely to thin the field or eliminate even one big spade, let alone any additional draws.

CMP

[Rico Suave]

Hey CMP:

I generally will raise on the flop. You can collect the extra sb from the 5 or 6 opponents that are in right now. Also,there is no guarantee that you will have many opponents on the turn to trap. And finally, you might get lucky and the original bettor will 3-bet. Then you can call and still trap the field for 2 bets on the turn. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Even though that is how I would play it, I do not think that waiting till the turn is bad.

--Rico

[JerseyTom]

I'm not sure here (but then I'm a relative newbie...) You clearly have the best hand right now (though it is vulnerable), and I'm generally in favor of jamming the pot while that's the case...

Even if you're sure that a "raise (here or turn, actually) is not likely to thin the field", I still think you need to raise this flop and make everyone pay to try to draw out on you (if the original bettor re-raises, I'd cap). If a (relative) blank falls on the turn and it's checked to you, bet again.

[Scottnyce]

Raise the Flop.....If you wait till the turn what if a spade hits and then your turn raise gets 3 bet, Or what happens if a spade hits, it gets bet then raised before it gets to you.....you could go from the nuts to drawing dead. Get your money in now while you are ahead. Also at these low limit games if a non spade over card hits the turn someone will probably bet into you anyway.....

[lil']

Raise now. You have them all in there for one bet on the flop, and they'll all pay one more bet to see the turn when you raise.

Raise (here or turn, actually) is not likely to thin the field or eliminate even one big spade, let alone any additional draws.
Good, let them put all the money in the pot they want when you have the nut hand.

[LetsRock]

IF the board was rainbow, I'd be for just calling and popping the turn. With a 2-tone board I think I'll be jamming this now, while you do have the nuts. I don't think you really want to thin the field here, so collect all of the bets you can and charge to draw.

I think the only reason not to raise the flop, is that you will be building the pot big enough to make it correct for all fishermen to call with any hope at all on every street.

That being said, the only draws you really want to get rid of are the flush draws, and they'll have plenty of odds any way, so it makes sense to let the straight chasers keep chasing so give them the odds and raise. The only draws who's odds you can alter would be those with 2 pr (having 4 outers to a boat) and they're not likely to go away so I say build this pot. Bet every chance you can.

[Homer]

Preflop

Consider raising JTs on the button after 4 or 5 limpers.

Flop

Some things to think about when deciding whether to raise the flop or wait until the turn...

- How likely is it that the flop bettor will fire again on the turn after a bet and 6 callers?

- How likely is it that the flop bettor will three-bet the flop if you raise?

- How likely is it that the players who have called a single bet will call two more cold if you raise and the flop bettor three-bets?

If you can build a pot on the flop, go ahead and raise. If you think everyone will call your raise and it will be checked to you on the turn, but if you only call the flop bettor will fire again on the turn, then just call.

-- Homer

[Warik]

Raise and don't slow down until you see the 3rd spade.

If they're on a flush draw, you won't make any money on the river if it doesn't hit. If it does hit, you're done. Put your money in now while you have the best hand and consider slowing down when the 3rd spade hits if anybody shows credible aggression.

[Homer]

You'll be charging the flush draws more if you wait until the turn.

[CMP]

[ QUOTE ]
You'll be charging the flush draws more if you wait until the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I did.

Turn was the [7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif]3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Bet to me again, and now I raised. People's jaws hit the floor, "how the hell did that card help you," lol.

River was the semi ugly [7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif]10 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Checked to me and I bet, and about 5 of the 8 saw the end. I chopped a huge pot with the AJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, to whom I gave a cheap draw on the flop -- hence the question.

Additional thoughts/comments?

MP

[arkady]

CMP,

Given that you are on the button, I would raise only if an LP player bets to try to shut out anyone with a /images/graemlins/spade.gif or J that might decide to continue drawing if a pretty turn comes. Otherwise, I have never seen anyone fold once they have already put in one bet.

[aas]

With two spades showing, raise. If it was rainbow, call and raise the flop.

aas.

[bicyclekick]

I think you played it correctly, actually. Owell that you gave that guy a cheap draw on the flop, you want to charge the flush draw the max and they are making money on the flop, so wait til the turn and see if it comes or not. If the spade comes on the turn you can act accordingly. With all those callers some dumbass probably has spades and if it's bet and raised i'd fold, but if it's just bet i'd probably call it down.

I don't like raising the flop here as you're more then likely going to get checked to on the turn and that's not what you want.

[PokerNoob]

I'm not sure AJ is going anywhere with two overcards, a gutshot straight draw and a backdoor nut flush draw. One possibility is to raise the flop and check the turn. Somebody in the literal army of callers behind may think you were going for a free card and bet their top pair/overpair/whatever and you get to checkraise. This obviously works better if a nice card in the playing zone falls on the turn and there are a bunch of people in the hand with you.

"5 of 8 saw the end". That is what I love about these games. Any jack or 6 beats whatever they have but they call along anyway.