Blind defence and flopping top pair

Interesting hand last night in a wild game on LL paradise.


I defend my big blind against a late raise with As8s.


Flop is 8 5 3 rainbow.


I check, he bets, I raise and he 3 bets.


I check call on turn low blank, river is another low blank, check check and I win.


My question here is on the flop play. I think the stronger play is to just bet out the flop and then 3 bet when he inevitably raises. Checkraising here doesn't really say anything. Most LL aggressive players with 3 bet with nothing but overcards in this situation anyways. Versus a steal raise top pair with ace kicker is an incredibly powerful hand. Any comments?


p.s. to Magithighs: all I have to say is I'm glad you left that table last night. Your spot was taken by an extremely live one I've never seen before, and of course any game where Shaolin_Rice brings 40 bets to is a good one as well. Here's a few for you:


#1: I flop trip jacks with an ace kicker on a rainbow board, all sorts of action on flop, river makes a running flush but pairs the board low, I bet, SR raises, and of course I reraise thinking I'm chopping.. he has the flush..


#2: I have the nut flush draw on the flop, its capped, I make it on the turn and am check-called by SR. River is a blank, he checkraises me, I reraise, and he folds and I take down a 15+ BB pot without a showdown.


#3: Live one limps, MP raises, I 3 bet with the airlines. Flop is K J 9 all hearts, I have the Ah. Me and the live one cap the flop, calls me down on the turn and river blanks with Kc4h.


Made up for *cough* a few gaffs earlier thats for sure.

Man I love SR in the game! And they complain that their J5s gets rivered, becuase they had top pair until the river -- boggles my mind, but I love it.


I think either the bet out/re-raise or check-raise works in your situation. Just gotta go based on the player. I think you definately want a raise and need to go based your read of the player. Many won't raise your bet, but they will get into a macho thing when you c/r. So against the tough type, c/r. Against a stronger player, I would bet out, epecting a raise. Either way you're in the driver's seat.


Personally, I would just want a raise on the flop. The strenght is a bet on the turn. I would bet out on the turn as you want to know if that hit them. If it does and it's an ace, ka-ching. If it does, you'll definitely get a raise. Then you can decide if you want to go forward with your 6 or less outer.


IMO, only time you want to 3 bet or cap the flop with your hand is if you have a weak kicker. And, then if you're playing against a sharp player you want to figure they may know that. Against most, though -- safe.

I have a slew of hands played with this player. What a whale!

A check-raise is effective to know players out, but I wouldn't do it to build a pot with a pair of eights. Whether to do it head up really depends upon whether you think you have the best hand.

He has the honor of being the #1 loser on my fledgling pokerstat db.

Just curious...


If the turn and river were "blanks," why did you slow down?


JSB

Vary your play in these spots between betting out and checkraising.


I prefer the checkraise multiway because 3-betting is more difficult since he knows that I know there are other players. This reduces the chances that I am bluffing and elicits a more reliable response from the preflop raiser.


Headsup, just be sure to balance your play between playing fast and slow, betting out and checkraising. Against a steal raise, you are, of course, going to the river with this hand. How you get there is up to you.