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View Full Version : Repost: Am I an idiot?: a novella


invictus
03-24-2004, 07:00 PM
This is not a bad beat rant, I just want to know what better players think of the way I played a decisive hand.

Last night I made it to the final four in a local no-limit hold'em tournament that only pays the top three finishers. When we got down to four I had about 6,000 chips, Big Stack had 16,000, the other two players had 5,000 and 3,000. Big Stack is playing very loose-aggressive (he called a pre-flop raise with 8-2 offsuit and flopped a full house) and catching tons of cards, breaking people right and left. Earlier he had gone broke twice and rebought both times. Anyways, once we get down to four I start slaughtering him. I win six head-to-head pots in a row against him. Everytime he calls me I have a huge hand, everytime he folds under pressure I am either bluffing or semi-bluffing. He is clearly confused, terrified to enter any pot with me. Now I have 12,000 in chips, Big Stack has 13,000 (he is still crushing the small stacks) the other two guys have 3,000 and 2,000. Then this happens....

Big Stack is in the small blind, I am UTG and see Q spades J spades. I call the big blind, hoping to check-raise. Sure enough Big Stack raises 200, big blind folds, button has already folded. I re-raise 1,000. Big Stack looks bewildered, he thinks for 3 minutes at least then flips his lucky fifty cent piece to determine whether or not to call, I don't think he's acting and put him on rags since all day he has called any raise so long as he has a facecard. Lucky JFK says call.

Flop comes A clubs Q hearts 10 spades

I have second pair, need a King for the nut straight, and have a very outside chance at a flush.

Big Stack checks. I raise 5,000. This time 5 minutes go by before he croaks "call." I smell weakness all over him.

Turn card is 4 hearts.

I move all-in. This time he calls quickly. He flips over A diamonds 4 clubs.

I pray for a Queen or a King but my sins draw me an 8 of whatever. Just like that I'm out of the tournament, out of the money and out of luck.

How bad of a move was it? In retrospect I should have just leaned on the small stacks till I broke them before trying a coup against the only player who could hurt me badly. I have read many poker books and know my timing was horrible. On the other hand, I smelled weakness and truly believed I had the best hand. In the back of my head the whole time was every poker experts' exhortation "Be aggressive." The worst part is that I was by far the most skilled player at the table and know I could have outplyed them all if I hadn't been broke.

So, Am I an idiot?

gigahurts
03-25-2004, 12:49 AM
That wasn't weakness you smelled, it was johnny chan...

Cornbread Maxwell
03-25-2004, 03:52 AM
I think you play fine, except that I think we need to play some heads up matches sometime.

45Player
03-25-2004, 07:45 AM
Based on your reading of the big stack (i.e. that he had rags), then you must have felt that you were ahead all the way. Therefore I think you were always destined to go bust on this hand.
However I think your bet sizes were incorrect. Pre-flop there is about 2500 in the pot. A bet of around the pot size (say 3000) would have been sufficient here. If he calls then you can make another pot-size bet on the turn (i.e. 8000). In this situation you would still have gone bust as he hit his second pair on the turn.
However after you overbet the pot on the flop, you are only able to make a bet of less than half the pot on the turn. You are thus giving odds of more than 3/1. This is not a desirable situation especially in cases where you don’t want any callers. It did not make any difference in this example but in other situations it can be crucial.
If you are going to overbet the pot (with almost half your stack), then you should just go all-in. As well as putting extra pressure on your opponents it ensures that you won’t have any difficult decisions to make later.

Peter G
03-25-2004, 11:11 AM
Your first mistake was limping with q high with the intention of reraising, second mistake over betting the flop when a pot size bet would of achieved the same thing, 3rd mistake not taking the free river card when all you had was middle pair with no kicker.
All this from a player who just busted from a tournie with 8 high, "sigh"