Sport or Skill

[Big Mo]

Auto racing and hockey, even ping-pong are considered a sport. None of these require you to be in great physical shape. Billiards and darts are others you can throw in.

Is poker and the rest of these games sport or skill in your opinion?

[Bad Apple]

My vote goes to skill, including golf. In sports you need both physical and mental skills while a game like chess for example only require mental skills.

*Not sure about auto racing, they may need physical endurance skills.

[rbenuck4]

The dictionary defines sport as "An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively." We can all agree that poker requires skill and is governed by a set of rules and is undertaken competitively, so the only question remains is whether there is physical exertion involved.

Anyone who's ever played an 8 hour tournament before knows that you have to be there both mentally and physically to stay alive. You absolutely need to be in shape physically or else your mind goes as your body goes. I would definately call poker a sport, as I would chess, Auto racing, and even (dare I say) bowling.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
Auto racing and hockey, even ping-pong are considered a sport. None of these require you to be in great physical shape.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are kidding, right? hockey? even race drivers are always in at least pretty good shape.

poker requires no physical skills to play really, therefore I don't consider it a sport. However, especially when there are spectators, it does have some properties of a sport.

al

[Schmed]

that requires skill. It's not even in the team photo of sports.....

[Greg (FossilMan)]

[ QUOTE ]
Auto racing and hockey, even ping-pong are considered a sport. None of these require you to be in great physical shape. Billiards and darts are others you can throw in.

Is poker and the rest of these games sport or skill in your opinion?

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think that you have to be in great physical shape to compete at the highest levels for hockey and ping-pong? If so, you don't know those sports at all.

Even though they are physical activities, I don't consider billiards and darts to be sports. My personal definition of a sport vs. a game is that a sport requires you to be in great physical condition to compete at the highest levels. A game does not require such athleticism.

It may be true that most great billiards and darts champions are also great athletes, but I don't think they HAVE to be to make it in those games. As for auto racing, I don't know enough about it to guess as to the physical demands.

So, poker is clearly a game. Just like chess, only with a MUCH bigger luck factor. At least in my mind, it is the athleticism factor that distinguishes a sport from a game. Of course, that's the problem with this question. You're not really asking us whether poker (or darts, or whatever) is a sport. You're asking us what is our definition of "sport".

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[HDPM]

Well, hockey requires you to be in great shape and to have great physical skills, so I don't know what you are saying.

Auto racing requires a lot of coordination and endurance. Although I have not raced a car, well, not a race car on a track at least, it is obvious that racing all out with the car on the brink of going out of control takes a lot of skill and hand-eye-foot coordination. And there is the risk of injury or death which helps make things a sport.

OTOH, I have played poker with a quadreplegic. Poker is not a sport. A great game to be sure, but not a sport.

Physical things which are not sports: Figure skating, diving, ski jumping (if only distance counted it would be a sport, if flaming buses were used as obstacles it would be gr8) and the other judged events. Sports need an objective measure of scoring/success IMO.

[Big Mo]

A couple of things.

I meant to type golf rather than hockey. Yes hockey is definately a sport. My bad.

I don't see the need to be physically fit to be a poker champion or compete at the highest levels. Nor do I with ping-pong, chess, darts, billiards, golf etc.

I also feel that if you call golf a sport poker is as well. So yes, my main question is the difference between sport and game.

[Mano]

Ping-pong at the highest levels definitely requires some athletisicism. Darts, billiards and golf are more debatable, although unlike poker and chess, these games require physical coordination. Poker and chess require no physical skill (although I would certainly concede that being physically fit would reduce fatigue and help keep you sharp, it is not required to be a winning, or even world class poker/chess player).

[HDPM]

No, golf is clearly a sport. It requires a lot of timing and coordination and more strength and flexibility that you might think. Knowing where to hit your ball only goes so far, you have to be able to pull it off physically. OTOH, knowing how to move a chess piece or fold your cards doesn't.

Pool and billiards are closer to games, in that knowledge is very important. However, the physical skill required to pull a shot off makes them sports IMO. But pretty sedentary ones I admit. Darts too.

My definition of a sport is an objective competition requiring physical skill of some sort. So the sports test different things. Marathon running requires more conditioning, golf requires more precision coordination, throwing the discus requires explosive strength, etc.... Some sports have a lot of risk or test a wider variety of skills. But sports that test a narrow range of skills tend to test them in an exacting fashion.

[rtucker5]

They show poker on ESPN. I vote for sport.

[Martin Aigner]

HDPM,

[ QUOTE ]
Physical things which are not sports: Figure skating, diving, ski jumping (if only distance counted it would be a sport, if flaming buses were used as obstacles it would be gr8) and the other judged events. Sports need an objective measure of scoring/success IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point about the objective measure, but don´t you take this too far? E.g.: What about boxing? By your means boxing would qulalify only for a sporting event if it was two guys fighting until one fighter is knocked out.

Just curious whether you think that boxing is a sport.

To the original poster: I guess you´ve never seen Ping Pong played on a professional level. If you think that you have to be in top physical shape to play tennis, Ping Pong players should just as much qualify to be "sportsmen". Trust me, it is just as exhausting as tennis. Simply the fact that you don´t have to run such long distances as in tenns doesn´t meant that it´s less exhausting. You wouldn´t say that sprinting for 100m is no sport but running a marathon is. Same goes for Ping Pong.

About auto racing: auto racing on a professional level requires great physical shape to be competitive.

Anyway, I think in terms of traditional thinking Poker is no sport, and never will be. Simply the fact that you can win the world championchip being in rather poor shape means IMHO that it doesn´t qualify for a sporting event. Although being in good physical shape definitely helps to gain this this goal.

Best regards

Martin Aigner

[slamdunkpro]

My definition of a game - Any skill activity which can be undertaken while drinking beer, and or smoking.

ie; Darts, Poker, Bowling, Billards /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[HDPM]

No, boxing is clearly a sport. Whether you knock out the other guy is within your control. Only after you fail does the judging matter. And the judging SHOULD be on objective things, like who hit the other guy the most, not style. But judging does take away from it. It would be better if they fought until one guy couldn't go anymore. More guys would die or be brain damaged, but I am not going to be one of them, so who cares? /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[M2d]

We got into this on the board a few (many?) months ago, and the board was split about whether golf was or wasn't a sport. I came down on the side of 'yes'.
I think you can add endurance to the list of physical demands of golf. a player who's not fit will not perform anywhere close to his or her peak on the 18th hole. This is, of course, magnified in extreme weather conditions and also when walking as opposed to riding.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Ok well you clarified some. But as a golfer, I understand that golf takes a GREAT deal of physical skill, while again, poker does not. An overweight person might still play golf pretty well, as well as play poker well. A physically fit poker player has no special ability to excel at golf, not even over an overweight person who is already a good golfer. So a golfer may not have to be as physically fit as a football or hockey player, but they still must have a great deal of physical skill in order to succeed.

So again, I stand by my position, poker is not really a sport because there is no physical skill component. Shuffling chips and such doesn't have much effect other than psychologically on the weakest players.

Truth be told, I like driving the carts and drinking beer more than the actual golfing. But I have a pretty good short game tho. I can shoot less than 100 almost every time!

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I gotta highly disagree with you about figure skating, diving, ski jumping, and other events as being sports. But I aint gonna elaborate.

Let's talk about flaming buses!

I'd love to see people ski-jump over that!

Hell, if CURLING is an olympic sport now (yes Kurn, I finally do REALLY know what curling actually IS), well certainly flaming bus ski-jumping can be a sport!

What about dog shows? Are THOSE sports? who's the actual sportsman? the dog, or the fat lady parading the dog around?

al

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]
A couple of things.

I meant to type golf rather than hockey. Yes hockey is definately a sport. My bad.

I don't see the need to be physically fit to be a poker champion or compete at the highest levels. Nor do I with ping-pong, chess, darts, billiards, golf etc.

I also feel that if you call golf a sport poker is as well. So yes, my main question is the difference between sport and game.



[/ QUOTE ]

Most people who don't think golf is a sport have never played it at anywhere near a high level.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
I meant to type golf rather than hockey.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure. happens all the time with the golf key so close to the hockey key on the keyboard

[WDC]

They also have shown Scabble (R)

[WDC]

Bridge is making a push to be an Olympic Sport. If Bridge is a sport, then poker has to be. I can see it now Olympic Gold Medalist Phily Ivey.

[baggins]

anything you can compete at while sitting down is not a sport.

all of these games/sports require SOME level of physical activity, whether simple hand-eye-(foot) coordination or the ability to sprint all-out in changing directions for hours at a time. however, if you can play competitively and win while sitting down, it's not a sport.

this excludes wheelchair sports.

[Simon Diamond]

This has been debated on 2+2 before. Check out this link for some more opinions:

Is Poker a Sport? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=316911&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=all&vc=1)

I class poker, like my other hobby snooker, as a game and not a sport. I think this is the widely perceived notion too.

Simon

[Kenrick]

[ QUOTE ]


Most people who don't think golf is a sport have never played it at anywhere near a high level.

[/ QUOTE ]

The same with bowling. Bowling is FAR more physical than golf, yet golf is usually considered a sport.

Poker a sport? As much as I'd like to say yes... nah.

[ZeeJustin]

Words have mutliple definitions, and those definitions often change.

Look up the word sport. Any credible dictionary will have multiple defnitions. Poker will of course fall under some, but not all of these definitions.

And it's not close.

[thewarden]

"anything you can compete at while sitting down is not a sport.

all of these games/sports require SOME level of physical activity, whether simple hand-eye-(foot) coordination or the ability to sprint all-out in changing directions for hours at a time. however, if you can play competitively and win while sitting down, it's not a sport."

But Auto Racing is done sitting down and requires physical skill and endurance. You don't see too many 300 lb. racecar drivers, do you? I've got to agree with the poster who said that anything you can do while eating, drinking and smoking is not a sport. Certainly it requires a great deal of mental energy and shouldn't be played in impaired conditions, but poker is a skill game.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

and I thought everyone seemed to be having a good time talking about it.

Besides, I am right and they are wrong anyway, as usual! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

al

[DonWaade]

[ QUOTE ]
But Auto Racing is done sitting down and requires physical skill and endurance. You don't see too many 300 lb. racecar drivers, do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree that Auto Racing is and should be considered a sport. But Jimmy Spencer is a is fat a$$.

[DonWaade]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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I meant to type golf rather than hockey.


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sure. happens all the time with the golf key so close to the hockey key on the keyboard

[/ QUOTE ]

lmao. Orange Juice is everywhere