Correctly played or mistake?

Low limit game. I am in the CO with 88. Folded to me and I raise. SB calls. BB raises. I call, SB calls. Three to the flop.


Flop comes down beautifully. 8 - 2 - 2. SB checks. BB bets. I call, SB folds.


Anyone raise here?


Turn is a 7. BB checks and I check. Here's the rationale for the play. If I bet, the CO will fold A,K. A check will hopefully induce a river bet (which I will raise) from that AK. I would be surprised to see him check with a high pair, although I suppose it is possible if he is trying to check raise.


Anyhow, river comes A. He bets out, I raise. Results to follow. Any comments on this play?

Now of course he reraises and I cap. Anyone lay off the gas pedal here? Sure enough he has AA and hit his 2 outer.


Despite the unfortunate result, is the play right or wrong in the proper spot?

I would probably raise the flop hoping that the big blind will 3-bet. Then, I will smooth-call and raise the turn when he bets into me.


I'd bet the turn and hope to get checkraised so you can 3-bet here.

You hit your two-outer and then he hit his two-outer. Some would call that justice. /images/smile.gif


You should definitely cap the river with a full-house here.

I would have pounded away on the flop, you have a full house, but a A-9 on the turn could give one of the other two a full house that's bigger than yours.


On the turn same thing. Two pair will stay with you, they could make a boat too. Once they see the river, they will be more willing to believe you have the best hand - or can beat your hand.


As a guess, one of two things happened on the river. Two pair or you lost the hand.

Well thought out and well-played. Your raise in CO as first in is almost mandatory. Beautiful flop! A case could be made for playing your hand fast and put in raise on the flop, but depending on your opponent, a raise on the flop might be the last bet you see out of him.


The check on the turn is also good since there is almost no card that can hurt you. Same line of reasoning, if he has only AK or 2 overcards you don't want to scare him out. Also, this may induce to bluff at the river if he misses.


The river is a good card. The raise is mandatory.


I peeked at the results and that's a tough break, but keep in mind that even if you played this particular hand fast (undoubtedly you would have gotten a lot of action, given what your opponent was holding)you were going to lose no matter what. There is no way your opponent folds his hand. In a weird way because you slow-played your hand to keep your opponent in you lost less than had you played it fast.


Better luck next time!!

I don't think the turn check is a good play. If he checked to you on the turn, he either:

1) Thinks he doesn't have the best hand and will fold on the river if he doesn't improve.

2) Is looking for a checkraise.


If it's (1), get the bet in now, because he may call a bet on a draw, but won't call a bet if he misses the river. If it's (2), well that's beautiful because you'd be more than happy to have him check-raise you so you can 3-bet.


Checking the turn only works out if he's drawing to a hand that doesn't beat you and will put in more bets on the river than he would have put in on the turn and river combined if you had bet the turn. There's almost no way that checking the turn maximizes your EV.

Sitting in his shoes, are you going to check-raise the turn here? I think not . . .

What is the draw? AK?

you charged him as little as possible to make his hand. he probably thought he was way ahead the whole way. i can see waiting for him to bet the turn (which i think he should have done) and then raising him, but once he doesnt bet the turn, you need to. you cant give him inifinite odds. make him pay.

I think I would have raised on the flop. I doubt he folds and he may even re-raise.


I think I would have bet on the turn, especially after failing to raise on the flop. I understand your rationale, but suspect you're getting too fancy here. You hope he's going for a check raise. If he folds, well, that's a shame, but I'd hate to see your flopped full go down to a two-outer behind a discounted flop and free turn....


That IS what happened, right? I haven't looked yet.


The usual caveats apply.


JSB

I think your better off playing these hands fast. I think it's almost always a mistake to slow play good hands (there are a few exceptions, but not many). Players are used to other players playing hands fast when they don't have anything special, so go ahead and play your hand just like you would a lessor hand. Playing it slow is likely to make less money for two reasons:

1) Players are more likely to put you on a good hand (because your slow-playing) and thus less likely to make mistakes against you

2) Your hand, although very good, was somewhat vulnerable.

Johnny,


Absolutely, a checkraise on the turn is a viable option. Here's why:


He puts you on high cards. So he thinks that an 8227 board totally missed you. Likely, he is making the same play you are here! He figures that you are drawing with no outs to win. He can possibly induce a bluff by checking and get at least one more bet out of you. Or, you could have a big pair and he can checkraise and get paid off the entire way. I see no reason why a check here with the intent of raising if you bet, or giving you the opportunity to hit a K or Q on the river is not a good play.


So, in answer to your question, there is absolutely no problem with checking this hand on the turn. I am near positive he was checking with what he thought was the best hand, not because he was afraid of the board. Why not checkraise?


Mike

If he puts you on a big pair (since you raised pre-flop), a checkraise is a very viable play on the turn.


In similar situations I've also heard players irrationally say afterwards "Well, he could have had a 2". It's should be obvious that you don't have a 2 but the fear is sometimes still there.


Assuming your opponent had AK, it's still better to bet the turn. He'll probably call hoping to spike and Ace or King on the river which he'll think is good. However, if he doesn't get either card, he'll probably check-fold the river when you bet. You need to get the money in the pot while he still has hopes of winning the pot.

love the preflop raise...


the flop....im capping...mainly because he raised preflop...this will also help define his hand by the turn. if he c/r the turn or 3 bets, you know he has a high overpair...BUT he may think you ALSO have an overpair.


i wouldve rammed and jammed the flop and turn, then, if hes there til the river when the A shows up, its a check/call. what else would he be THAT aggressive with...


i wouldve lost a bit more on this hand, so in that way i guess its a victory. there are no draws so checking the turn is out for me...


this is the type of hand you get the chips early....on the flop and turn. who cares if he calls the river, you can get more than enough bets earlier...


just some ideas...


b

Dynasty is a more experienced player than I (and i am a tighter player) but I don't cap the river. Some quotes through the thread seem to indicate you focused on him having AK. I think you almost always have to figure in the possibility of AA or KK also. But, as I have either read in a quote or heard it here recently "If I make a full house and lose and it dosen't cost me a lot of chips, I played it wrong."

i am a tighter player (than Dynasty)


There are people who have watched me play who would think this is highly unlikely. /images/smile.gif They seem to think I do nothing other than fold.


While you can't dismiss AA here, I think it's easy to cap since it will gain you 1 bet when you win and cost you 1 bet when you lose. You will be right the majority of the time and make money.


What you can't do is endlessly raise just because you have a full-house. If there were no cap, I still would have 4-bet but I would have only called a 5-bet back to me.

I would almost always bet the turn here. I would try for a check-raise here if I got called on that flop. This is not a flop for AA where you worry about given a freebie, and you might get called on the river with a small pair if th player checks back on the turn. Against a lot of players who raised coming in and three-bet me on the turn, I would cap it in many cases. Sometimes when I play hands and someone raises the river with a monster, I think, "Wow, they could've won another 60 if they didn't wait so long."

Does the BB feel you'll bet if he checks, allowing him the chance to CR the Turn? If so, you should definitely BET the Turn.


Personally, I bet the Turn no matter what.


The worst case River scenario is him holding AA and reraising you on the last street.

Why oh why would you cap it here?

If I read it right, this was HU. Shouldn't raising be unlimited? Where was this game?


That being said, I would have bet the turn. BB may not still fold with his 2 outer and maybe thinking that his top 2 pair as good.


BLNT

I like your play. The same thing happened to me recently except I was the guy with AKs in the BB. The CO raised pre-flop and I reraised. The flop was rags with a small pair. The CO bet the flop I called. The turn was a blank and the CO checked, and I checked. The river was a Ace, he bet I raised, and he reraised. I called and he turns over the FH -- he tells me he was praying for an A on the river.


Had he bet the turn I would have folded so he played it beautifully. I think you did as well, and by slowplaying you didn't lose as much as you would had you played it fast. There is no way you could have put him on a hand as he very well could have reraised you with any Ace as he may feel you are full of it raising as the first one in on the CO.

Because of position, I would be more inclined to bet out here if I were my opponent. I'm not suggesting that he should put me on a 2 and check out of fear. I can just imagine that his check would leave a bet on the table in case I have a hand like 99.


In any case, in most low limit situations I would probably keep betting with my AA rather than get unnecessarily fancy. It is also likely that someone would fold a 99 to a checkraise, so you're probably getting only one bet anyhow. JMO.


Best of luck.