Ed Miller and the wrong button, did they cost me money?

[B Dids]

Lousy play today at lunch. I shouldn't try and play in this environment.

Bison's converter is down, so I'll try and make this look pretty.

***** Hand History for Game 474045570 *****
0.50/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 23 14:57:29 EST 2004
Table Table 12701 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to B_Dids [ Kd, Tc ]

So normally I fold this (with glee after a post from last week), but I'm two tabling on a small monitor, playing at lunch (at work, which means having to worry about somebody walking into my office). So I'm not paying full attention, and hit the call button.

** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7h, 9h, 8d ]

On the flop there's a raise, which I call (OESD) and another raise (again OESD and the put is large- Ed Miller wants me to call- right?)

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9c ]

Same scenario, I call a bet, there's a raise, I call again. I think the pot odds are right, but that's why I'm posting...

MajorKong's post kept yelling at me throughout this pot. I shouldn't be folding in big pots like this. What do you do in this circumstance?

[Zetack]

Not enough information...we don't know your position, the PF action, the number of players in the hand or the pot sizes.

--Zetack

[B Dids]

Yeah- once the converter is back up, I'll make another post. I don't want to go back and edit the hand history to remove the screen names, nor do I want to posts folks screen names.

In general there were 4 callers for the flop and the turn. I was in MP, raises came from LP and the BB.

[spamuell]

You could just type out the hand. Old school stylee.

(Or you could use Slavic's hand decoder (http://www.team-skilz.com/) , but remember to edit the pot size.)

[sthief09]

couple of things

- if someone flopped the nuts (JT) you're drawing to 3 outs for a split
- someone else could have a T, meaning you have no chance of winning the whole pot
- there are 2 hearts on the board, hurting 2 of your outs
- with top pair pairing and peoples' love for connectors, you have to consider the real possibility that someone turned a boat. 98, 97, 77, 88 all have you drawing dead
- your pair outs are almost certainly no good

I don't know enough about the hand yet (size of the pot, # of people in, PF raise?) to know whether calling the raise cold on the flop was a good move. But I'm almost certain calling the turn was a bad move. The above factors are all possible enough to reduce the price you're getting GREATLY. Anytime there's a chance you're drawing dead, you have to alter your odds significantly.

When the pot is big, you should lean toward folding, because you're almost always getting the right price to call with something mediocre. But you have to consider the chance that you don't really have 8 outs. You could have as little as 0 outs, and it's possible you have only 3 outs to a split. If you make your straight and lose, that will be very, very expensive.

I'll go through it mathematically when you post it later. I'm curious if you were getting the right price.

[Ed Miller]

I can't tell what you should do just from this because there aren't enough details. I will admonish you about one card straight draws... you always have to worry about two things:

1. You can easily be drawing for a split pot.
2. If there is a ton of action, you may be drawing to three outs for a split against a made straight.

I frequently dump one-card open-ended straight draws on the flop if the pot isn't too big and action makes me think that I'm drawing to a split.

In contrast, I'd virtually never dump the hand if I had JT and the flop came 985, giving me the two-card draw.

[B Dids]

Ahh.. .forgot about slavics- not sure what you mean by editing the pot size.

Party Poker 0.50/1 (10 handed)
Dids has K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif and is EP2

UTG limps, Dids limps, MP2 limps, CO limps, Button limps, SB limps, BB checks

Flop(7 SB): 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Dids calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB folds, UTG calls, Dids calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls

Turn(13 BB): 9/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bets, UTG calls, Dids calls, MP2 raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, UTG calls, Dids calls

River(23 BB): A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, UTG checks, Dids checks, MP2 bets, Button calls, SB calls, UTG calls, Dids folds

[B Dids]

FWIW, a 9 high straight took it down, but I agree that there possiblity of better hands existed.

The biggest lesson here is that KTo is the worst hand in the history of poker.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
not sure what you mean by editing the pot size.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop(7 SB):

[/ QUOTE ]

6BBs go into the pot on the flop:

[ QUOTE ]
Turn(13 BB):

[/ QUOTE ]

Should read 10.5BB (-rake). That's what I mean.

As for the hand, listen to majorkong /images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

[el_grande]

[ QUOTE ]

The biggest lesson here is that KTo is the worst hand in the history of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that hand is a dog in low limit. Late position call only and hopefully you have less than 4 opponents.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I shouldn't be folding in big pots like this. What do you do in this circumstance?


[/ QUOTE ]

i shut down a table and play single table. You're obviously missing some info from previous hands on the opponents tendencies in this type of situation. This hand should be easy to play.

Since you know nothing of your opponents, you call and possibly learn an expensive lesson about player profiling and bet patterns.

There are some players id fold on the turn to. but not here.

b