Flopping the boat--Overthinking things?

[Zetack]

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB folds, UTG folds, Hero raises, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Sigh. Only one player in with me on the flop.

The turn. Ok, Ok, I didn't go nuts. Look, I promise I'm not in the habit of seeing monsters under the bed (the couple of posts I've made today notwithstanding). Button had called three bets cold. This was a table without a lot of PF 3 betting. I didn't figure him for aces or he'd have capped. Obviously he didn't have KK. I liked him then for QQ or JJ. And he's raising me on the turn on this board?

On the river...well do I stick with my read and put him QQ now? I mean he wouldn't have cold called three with something nutty like K-J would he?

So...gutless?

--Zetack

[thirddan]

im raising every opportunity here


also, it is not unreasonable to think that someone would call 3 w/ KJ

[sthief09]

I might've slowplayed this. Granted the pot was already big and you shouldn't slowplay when it is, but J or no J I'll cap that river. And I see no point in not 3-betting the turn. I see you're waiting to check-raise the river, but that's dangerous, because there's a chance it gets checked through.

On the river you still have the 2nd nut.

[sthief09]

The chances that his opponent has KJ (as opposed to any other random hand) are 1 in 990, so it is very very very very very very very very very unlikely he's got KJ.

[thirddan]

i was not saying that he had KJ this hand...i was saying that many micro/low limit players don't care what action occurs before it is their turn to act, many click the auto buttons and will call 3 bets with anything they were gonna limp with...many players see two broadway cards and will see the flop no matter what...

[MortalNuts]

Ya know, yesterday Clarkmeister made a post where he commented that in Vegas (presumably mid-high limits), the cold-call of a PF 3-bet means "exactly TT, JJ, or AK."

Also, I saw this hand being played. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Despite both these things, I am still 3-betting the turn (or maybe c-ring the river) like, all the time.

But then you've seen me play, so you know how little weight that carries. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-mn

[Ed Miller]

Ya know, yesterday Clarkmeister made a post where he commented that in Vegas (presumably mid-high limits), the cold-call of a PF 3-bet means "exactly TT, JJ, or AK."

Dude, even mentioning this in the context of this hand is absurd.

[Peter Harris]

i agree that micro maniacs may well call 3 cold with KJ. However, i would be raising the turn and probably the river. You can't come up against a jack all that often and you have the secnond best hand. If you tell us he showed you KJ, you're supremely unfortunate. If you tell us anything else, you lost bets.

All the best,
Peter Harris

[bisonbison]

When someone 3-bets me preflop with A7o or 65o, is it wrong to assume its nykenny or mike l.?

[Zetack]

Button had Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif for quad jacks and took it down.

Ok, sure I saved myself some bets but I think I really misplayed the turn. Although I'm still kicking that around. Cause I still don't put him on AA. QQ I don't think he'd raise the turn with. Even if he'd call three with PF with tens is he still around much less raising on the turn? I suppose A-K is actually possible here but I didn't put much stock in it. I have to admit that Q-J (even suited) wasn't high up on the list of things that I thought he could have.

Like I say, probably I was overthinking things.

Oh, and as far as slowplaying, I do think this flop is the place to slowplay. If I'm already behind to JJ nothing comes off that beats me and if I'm not, since I don't think anybody has aces, there's only one card in the deck that beats me. Even if somebody has AA there's only three cards in the deck that can beat me. And this board could turn into somebody's flush or straight if I let it.

--Zetack

[MortalNuts]

[ QUOTE ]
Ya know, yesterday Clarkmeister made a post where he commented that in Vegas (presumably mid-high limits), the cold-call of a PF 3-bet means "exactly TT, JJ, or AK."

Dude, even mentioning this in the context of this hand is absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Next thing you know, I'll be quoting elysium. Muhahaha.

Of course I wasn't seriously suggesting his 0.50/1 opponent had specifically those hands. But I assume you (and he) know that.

cheers,

mn, who is somewhat chastened that the first time MK has posted a response to him, it contains the word "absurd." /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[StellarWind]

Zetack,

Just bet the flop next time.

When you bet the flop they put you on a pair: AK, KQ, AA, QQ, or TT. When you checkraise (or whiff and bet the turn) they put you on AJ or worse.

As it actually went, calling the flop heads up and checkraising the turn would have been good.

Reraise the turn. Play him for one jack, not two. Only an idiot would have QQ at this point but what else is new?

The river is a disaster. Make your crying call and hope for the best.