I have a new sick respect for MTT players

[CrackerZack]

I've been playing ring games for a while, quite a while now actually. I do ok I guess. Anyway, I really really enjoy playing in tournaments even though I'm a losing tournament player. I tend to offset this with my odd rituals. This is how I play tournaments. I find a tournament I want to play. Say its a 30+3 or something, about an hour or so before the tourney, I sit in a ring game, play until I win the amount of the buyin, then sit and wait for my tourney. If I end up losing in this time, I don't play in the tourney (unless its a limit tourney since I can play those blind in early rounds). This works pretty well for me. It gets a bit tricky with rebuys and addons so I try to avoid those, but I tend to plan to always take the addon and rarely rebuy. Now while I'm still losing money, I feel like it isn't my money since I just won it. Strange, but it works for me. Now while this makes me feel like I'm not really losing money, when I don't place, it really really really doesn't help with taking beats to get KO'd. In ring games I've taken horrific beats over and over again. Running pairs, 1 outers, whatever. Its never a big deal, you can rebuy and play on, but it isn't like this in tournaments obviously. I mean, after last night I can understand Phil's outbursts. A single beat to get KO'd, ok, stings, but ok. But its mentally crippling to be in a commanding lead, and take a number of beats only to be bubbled. I'm pretty certain I don't have the makeup to be a tournament player since this has been killing me all day. It was a dumb $50 tourney, yet I swore off poker and can't wait for vacation to be away from any type of cards for a couple of weeks. Anyway, not meaning to rant, but I'm curious if this is the type of thing that kills anyone aspiring to play in MTTs? I would like to move out of the realm of loser, but I'm not sure I have what it takes.

Only one hand to post that I'm a bit curious about...

4 players left, first 2 win seats in a bigger tourney, 3rd gets $425, 4th gets it in the pooper. I'm in 2nd with T31K (of 120K total). I'm in the BB with 5c5h. SB is on the short stack. He's definitely the best remaining player at the table, if I'm not, which is very possible. He'll lay down a hand if you out-price him, etc. The other 2 usually will not. Anyway...blinds 600/1200, ante 75, short stack on the SB open raises (23.7K stack) to 3600 and I call. Question 1, should I make a big re-raise here?

Flop: 4c 3c 2c

SB bets 4800 into the 7500 pot, my move? I raised 7200 more to 12000. Too little? He reraises basically allin 7200 more. I'm certainly not folding at this point, but wasn't sure if I should've moved him in on the flop. Anyway, I put his all the way in 800 more and he calls and turns over Ac 8h.

Thoughts?

We all know how it turned out, 8d turn, Tc river (just for a little salt). Did I really misplay this one? I am/was pretty sure he'd fold on the flop with overcards and no club draw. Let me have it...

Zack

Edit: I was against the SB

[TBone]

Hey Zack,

I too am a ring player, usually play some 2/4 or 3/6 prior to the tourney starting. I either do really well or get rivered six or seven hands in an hour and get pissed right as the tournament starts. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Why not raise pre-flop. It was folded to SB? You've got a pair man. He's short and could have anything. My inexperienced tournament butt would probably think I'm ahead pre-flop and put some pressure on him. I wonder if the more experienced tournament players would do this as well?

T

[Your Mom]

I'd either fold or reraise preflop. YOu ended up getting an easy flop to play but how often are you going to have an overpair and an open ender on the flop? Put him to the test preflop. If you read him for having a strong hand preflop, then muck those 5s - nothing wrong with that. Just don't call raises in tournaments -raise or fold.

[ajizzle]

I play primarily Multis now, as i could not stand the hours of beats I took at the limit tables. It sent me on tilt, and I could never really make the 2bb/hr like I wanted to.

With tourneys, you only have to take one beat at a time, and then wait til you calm down, and play another tourney. This prevented me from goin on tilt, and i win more now that i play tourneys.

Enough on that.

I re-raise a good amount PF, but not enough to commit me to call an all-in re-raise. I didn't really look at the hand very closely, but even if this re-raise is not too desicive, this allows you to take control of the hand on the flop, and your opponent will fold unless he makes his hand, picks up a draw, or already has you beat PF. Use the same strategy when you bet out on the flop. Playing 4 handed, presto (55) is the type of hand that you will push hard, but do not want to risk your entire stack on. You can built your stack back with suck large blinds, and can push your opponent off his hand with good strategy. As for finding the fine line of exactly HOW MUCH to raise back, use you poker logic for that. Anticipate what the pot will be with you re-raise and his all-in, and decide what odds you would need to call with 55. Make sure he doesn't give you those odds, or you may find yourself a huge DOG.

Hope this helps.

AJizzle

[ajizzle]

I disagree. Cold-calling small raises with pocket pairs 4 handed is a play I really like. YOu will find out very quickly on the flop if your opponent has a monster. In this particular situation, playing 4 handed, i would not have been surprised to see his opponent push PF with A8. However, when you cold-call, your opponent will likely fold to a nice bet if the flop totally misses him (which they will do a lot when you play Axo). Although I advocated for a small raise, I think cold-calling is a close second in this situation. The fact that the flop hit the opponent almost perfectly is just unfortunate (he has SOOOO many outs, that it justified an all-in)

just my two cents.

ajizzle

[TheGrifter]

I would fold this hand preflop, for several reasons.

Your options are calling, folding or raising. First let's look at raising.

Obviously, this is a classic steal position from the SB and often a raise will knock him out if he is on a steal. However, the size of his bet in relation to the stacks is problematic. A decent raise here would be one that is large enough to put him to a decision that commits him to the pot, but small enough so that you can get away from the hand if he pushes (do you really want him all in here knowing you are at best a very small favorite).

That raise in this situation would be about 10-12K. But if he comes over the top all in then you are correct to call for 7K more, a smaller raise will look weak and he may play back at you with any two. If he just calls a 10K raise then he will almost certainly push on any flop with high cards and you have to fold unless you hit a set. not a good situation in any case.

Next, calling. I think this is not a good move as well. Not only are you now going into the hand as (at best) a very slight favorite but you are also making it easy for him to bluff you out on the flop. If the flop has a couple of overcards and he bets into you, what's your move? In my mind, your position is no advantage here since HU the right to first bluff is often the biggest plus.

So, this leaves only folding. The reason I like a fold here is because when a tourney gets to be very shorthanded 2-4 left, I want to be the aggressor. In this situation raising is unattractive and you are second to act on the flop so you cannot be the aggressor. Basically he doesn't need to make a hand to win this pot, you have a hand but it is weak when seeing a flop. There is no need to get involved here.

[Pat Southern]

I fold this pre flop. At best you're a slight favorite. With the prize payouts and your big stack there isn't a need to chase coinflips. If I don't fold it, I push preflop, then you can push him off a weak A, or some hand like KT, or perhaps it was a total steal attempt. Most of the time the flop won't come as good as it did for you, and by calling it sets you up to maybe get bluffed off your hand when the flop comes with overcards. Either fold or get your money in when you're a slight favorite.