any 2 suited

[JDErickson]

I have been wondering about the + or - EV of limping with any 2 suited cards in a loose passive low limit game. I normally only play Axs anywhere and KXs from LP with lots of limpers.

Given that you are on a loose passive table with 6+ seeing flops everytime would it be worth it?

I know you have the chance of getting beat by higher flush. Just see lots of other "players" playing these and seem to win big when they hit.

Comments?

Jim

[mmanne]

I'd be very wary of playing any 2 suited. You see lots of people playing them and when you see them, they make tons of money. But, the best skill a good player has at low limit is the ability to escape tough situations, by not getting into them.

Think about how much you've earned off of people playing their 10-2 suited, when you catch the nut flush, and they catch their flush. There are just too many times that any 2 suited will cost a ton of money to a good player.

[JARID]

You should also notice that the players who win big with these type of hands are also the players that are typically short stacked and short on patience by the end of the night.
This same play has tempted me too, right about the time my AA gets snapped off by 73s, but it is a ton of work to take 73 /images/graemlins/spade.gif to the flop, catch two /images/graemlins/spade.gif, call the bets and raises, see a blank turn, call the bets, ah yes a /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the river, bet to you, RAISE! and then you hear it, RE-RAISE and all is for naught.
You will never be in a position of power with these type of hands. I stick to the Ax suited and the mid to high suited connectors in late position and given your reference to "players" I believe you know this is the right thing to do as well.

Take Care-
~J

[MaxPower]

I think the main problem of playing any two suited is not that you will run into a higher flush too often. The problem with most suited hands is that they don't have enough chance of winning if you don't make a flush.

With the higher suited connectors or suited high cards, you can often win when you make top pair, top two or a straight. Even hands like Axs and Kxs are have a decent chance of winning if you make top pair and play them with position.

Hands like 72s, 83s, 52s, etc. need to make a flush or catch a miracle flop. Even when you flop two pair with these hands, your second pair will often be counterfeited.

[scotnt73]

i dont play Kx suited at all or any 2 suited with one exception. i will play any 2 suited from the SB if there is no raise with the 2/4 structure.

[bisonbison]

Jim,

Are you feeling alright?

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you feeling alright?


[/ QUOTE ]

No actually it was a valid question. Recently I have seen lots of hands won with any 2 suited. Just made me think a bit if it would be worth a SB to see the flop and go from there.

I know. I know Lots of other less marginal hands to worry about before these.

back to normally scheduled program

[The Dude]

Jim,

Not just no... HELL NO!

[bisonbison]

I think MaxPower is right. You're praying for your flop, and then you're praying for your turn and river and praying that no one has the better flush.

A couple SBs here and there and suddenly you're out a BB.

Now, for half a SB, it's probably not hurting you, but that's because you only have a chance to do it once every few rotations in the SB.

[squiffy]

Yes, but you need to compare all the hands won to all the hands lost to a higher flush, a higher two pair, etc. And all the flop and turn bets lost when you don't connect and have no high card or high pair value to show down.

Anyway, until you have played 20 - 40 billion hands, your statistical sample is simply NOT RELEVANT. (Just kidding)

[tpir90036]

you will not make a flush and win often enough to make these hands +EV without something else to fall back on i.e. high-card strength, connected-ness for straights or preferably both.