2/4 cutoff with 88

Paradise poker 2/4, just joined. I post late blind in the cut-off. Fold to me with 88. I raise. Only big blind calls. Flop comes KsQs6s. One of my eights is a spade. He bets out, I fold.


I think I should have called on the flop with the intention of folding on the turn if he bet again and no spade fell. On the flop, he could've been betting a weaker spade or just trying to use the scary board to bluff. With 5.5 bets in the pot, I think I'm getting the odds to call. It would be very hard for him to bet again on the turn with nothing if I called on the flop (the board would be scary to him also). If a spade fell on the turn, I'd check and call the rest of the way.


What do you guys think?

It's hard for me to calculate, but I feel that it should prove very expensive to you to call the flop with the intention of calling down if you hit.


Consider this, you're calling a bet with a small percentage chance of meeting your criterion of seeing a showdown. What's more, if you showdown you'll win (probably) less than half the time. So it sounds like you're throwing away your bet here.


It's easier just to fold.


You can try to throw in a raise and hope for the best. You are playing poker after all--mix it up!

I would fold, but NEVER call.


If you don´t fold, Raise!!

"On the flop, he could've been betting a weaker spade or just trying to use the scary board to bluff."


If that is your read, then the only choice here is to raise. He may release a bluff or at a minimum you gain control of the hand. If he is on a flush draw, it is likely better than yours so make him pay for it while you are ahead.


Otherwise, fold...

I'm wondering if you could explain in more depth why raising is superior to calling in this spot? I should add that against solid players I think it's a clear fold.

There's a couple of ways of playing this. Good heads up players will often push draws strongly. The reason is that in addition to your outs if you hit your draw, you also have outs in that your opponent may fold. In this particular case you may well have the best hand, so you have three chances of winning (improve, opponent folds, or already have best hand). Since he was BB, he could have almost anything.


When he bets you could raise with the intention of re-raising again if he re-raises you. Probably the hand would get checked down to the river, and you can showdown your pair if you don't improve. If you do improve, of course you bet. If he is timid, you may get a free card on the turn just on the first check-raise, which is even better. Or he might fold.


Another way of playing it would be to call the flop and then raise the turn if a blank hits. You really don't want to fold a pair heads up. It's too good a hand against someone in the blinds. By raising on the turn, it doesn't cost you any more than it would if you check-called twice. Plus if you catch on the river, you win more than you would have had you check-called twice. So you don't lose any more if you don't catch and you win more if you do. Not many players will re-raise your check-raise on the turn, as you are representing a slow play here (you're obviously not trying for a free card, since there's only one round left, so you're representing a strong hand). Plus he may fold. In fact, he's more likely to fold a check-raise on the turn after you've check-called the flop then he is to fold a check-raise on the flop.


You actually had quite a strong hand for heads up, one which should be played aggressively. The fellow in the blinds would have been correct to bet any hand, so there's no reason to assume you're behind at this point. The odds are against him having a pair (he's got about a 43% chance of having a pair, assuming he'd bet with anything), and one of the pairs he could have from the board is lower than yours, plus you have 11 outs if you are behind, which gives you a 42% chance of improving by the river.


Summing up:

1) There's better than a 50/50 chance you've got a better hand already (assuming your opponent would bet with anything, which he should)

2) You've got a 42% chance of improving if you're behind.

3) You're opponent may fold if you bet aggressively.

4) Putting these together makes you a big favorite.


I noticed that I'm leaving out the possibility you could lose to a bigger flush. That's a possibility, but not likely enough to change anything. You're still a big favorite and need to play aggressively.

>I'm wondering if you could explain in more depth

>why raising is superior to calling in this spot?

>I should add that against solid players I think

>it's a clear fold.


There are a lot of situations in Hold'em where raising is superior to calling. I think this hand is a good example.


His opponent could have him badly beaten. Now if you call you may be drawing dead. If you raise and are reraised I would say that's a good case for laying down the hand. Raising turns out to be cheaper than calling down in this case.


There's also the possibility that your opponent will call your flop raise and check to you on the turn. You can try and pick up the pot with a bet or you can check the turn with the intention of picking off a bluff on the river. This is also a little cheaper than just calling down.


Your raise may also get a hand like QJ or 99 to fold on this flop. The chance that you may steal a pot from a superior hand is also something to factor in.


Your raise may get a hand like T9 with one spade to fold. If he could see what you had he would probably try and catch up by calling. The chance to get your opponent to decline his fair share of the pot is another thing to factor in.


So, if you're behind, a raise can steal the pot or make the pot cheaper to contest than calling down. Also, if you're ahead, a raise may make your opponent fold a hand that he should call because of pot odds had he known what you hold. If you're against an 'action' player, however, your raise may be unfortunately reraised and you may be made to fold incorrectly.

You're first reply: "It's easier just to fold."


Above reply: "....situation in Hold'em where raising is superior to calling. I think this is one of them."


What office are you running for?


LOL

Why did you post this nonsense?


If you read what I wrote with some care you would find that my views are logically consistent.