98s: 3-bet the flop then I check the rest of the way.

[BigEndian]

Anyone think the 3-bet is burning chips? The goal is to get the button and free cards.

I was tempted to change the plan and bet the turn when a flush draw came up. I think now that the better option was to bet to keep the pot up to get callers on the end if my hand does come through.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: BigEndian is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, BigEndian calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">BigEndian 3-bets</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP2 checks, BigEndian checks.

River: (8 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP2 checks, BigEndian checks.

Final Pot: 8 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 8 BB, between MP2, BigEndian and UTG.</font>

- Jim

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone think the 3-bet is burning chips? The goal is to get the button and free cards.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it certainly worked. And I think you scared the Bejezzus out of MP2 with his KJ! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BigEndian]

KQ, but close. Nice read!

- Jim

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

You got the button but what's it worth when your on a draw? Extremely questionable 3-bet in a small pot. There were 10 sb in the pot when action comes to you. I don't know what your draw out odds are exactly (factoring in possible backdoor flush outs) but they aren't MUCH better than the ten to three position you are putting yourself in by 3-betting here (and you might face a 4-bet from MP2). By just calling, you are getting 5 to 1 and will likely get a couple more customers when you make your draw.

But on the turn the pot is no longer small and your outs have increased, why not bet and try to win it there and use your hard earned position? If you get 2 callers you can check the river still and show down a pair of 8s or 9s (if one of them comes) for free. MP2 is weak for not betting the river after you check the turn. If 8 or 9 comes on the river, do you call an MP2 bet?

Off the subject a bit, I think this hand really illustrates why it can be such a strong play to (in the case of MP2) call a flop reraise or raise and bet a good hand (KQ in this case) into a positioned raiser. I often re-raise for for the button and respect w/ KQ in your place and the rest of the board checks it to me automatically, even an AK. That's so weak. By betting into the raiser on turn when a blank drops you really find out where you stand. Easy fold to a reraise as not many can raise twice on the come and most of those (not all) that would will surely give you their money later anyhow.

Just a few thoughts.

Cheers

[BigEndian]

I like to see cards for cheap in OESDs. If this was a flush draw on the flop, I probably would have just called to let other players in and let the action remain driven by the flop raisor. I'm not going anywhere in this hand, so if I can get free cards and the power for another SB, then I think it's a good play. But I am cutting down on my implied odds, so I can see your point.

I'm not getting the PF raisor to fold this turn. A bet on the turn is a pot builder. But I think I should have made it for that reason with the new outs.

I almost never call the river with one pair. My hand would not be good pretty much 99.99% of the time. This would be a loose, chip draining call. The pot is big because I made it big and the flop was raised in a scenario that makes it obvious there's a decent King out there.

I agree that the PF raisor is a weak player. I might have gone for the CR in his position that could lead to a checked through turn. But I'm betting the river, RSSB.

- Jim

[Trix]

It´s the only way to play it imo, coldcalling gives your hand away and certainly wont get you a cheap card.

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

I see your points. One more factor not yet mentioned. Is UTG likely (he did not of course) to fold to 3 bet on flop. In the 4/8 B&amp;Ms I play, most will w/out at least top pair or a good draw. Were you ok w/ being heads up or did you just assume (correctly) that UTG would auto call.

Also, in the weak games I play, I would, against many players, call heads up on end w/ rivered 99 on a board like that and win way more than the 6 or 7 to 1 the pot offers. This teaches people not not to bet $hit against me in a heads up pot. I can't say for sure but it adds to the 7 to 1 odds the pot offers me on those calls. That's another reason that I'd surely bet the turn--free showdown (which you got anyway). I usually know at least half of the players in my B&amp;M games and they know me. I'm sure that that's not so true on-line but I don't know.

Just curious if these other considerations were factored or relevant to your decision.

[squiffy]

My big worry is MP2. He raises, maybe with top pair top kicker, say AK or KQ. So he's not likely to fold, even if you bet the turn and river. (Unless he was betting a straight too.)

The 3-bet on the flop may also scare out a lot of players. Since you are drawing to a straight, why not just call and try to keep people in.

Once you 3-bet, it seems like a bet on the turn and the river are your best chances to win.

You should clearly bet the turn. Now you have a straight draw and a flush draw. And you might get one or both players to fold.

[dirty_dan]

I don't think you need to worry about your implied odds here. If both guys call your 3bet, you're still getting the right pot odds to see the turn (it would be 4.3-1). Plus with your 8 oesd outs and backdoor flush your equity is more than 33%, so on top of your other reasons for the raise, its also for value.

[AceHigh]

Flop play is good. I would bet the turn, your about even money to win if they both call, so worst case it's neutral EV and there is proabably a chance you win the hand right there.