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View Full Version : Another suited call from the blind: K4s

BigEndian
03-21-2004, 12:40 PM
When I make these calls, I can easily get away from the hand with a minor flop. So I feel good about the PF call, anyone not?

The PF raisor is an OK player. Not what I would consider a champ and burns too many chips imo. He's probably not capable of folding a hand he sees the turn with, but I think I learned that from this hand. The SB is a solid player and I respect their play. e.g. They are capable of folding a mediocre hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: BigEndian is BB with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BigEndian calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BigEndian raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BigEndian calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BigEndian bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (8.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BigEndian bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">BigEndian 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets $13 (All-In)</font>, BigEndian calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 15 BB, between BigEndian and UTG.</font>

- Jim
Tosh
03-21-2004, 01:24 PM
If I respected the UTG raiser - as you do - I would muck my hand here, the pot is not worth getting in trouble for.
sfer
03-21-2004, 01:46 PM
With only the SB calling I fold preflop.
spamuell
03-21-2004, 01:47 PM
If UTG has a good enough hand to raise UTG and then 3-bet the flop, it's very unlikely he's going to fold the turn for one bet, but he might well raise the turn which you don't want. I check-call the turn.

I worry a little about QQ on the river, but as he's so close to all in and players often go crazy when this happens, I wouldn't slow down either.
tripdad
03-21-2004, 03:28 PM
preflop call is ok, could go either way. i usually defend w/ suited cards, but would like more callers than you got, particularly w/ an UTG raisor.

as for the flop, why raise a draw if there is no chance of buying the button and getting a free card? the odds are there to call all the way.

no way i'm betting the turn unless there is a chance you can win it right then, which there isn't. i will never understand cold calling a flop raise, then leading out the turn bet unimproved.

solid river play considering his short stack. normally, i would just call the raise w/2nd nut flush AND a paired board.

cheers!
spamuell
03-21-2004, 03:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i will never understand cold calling a flop raise, then leading out the turn bet unimproved.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are in the BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. 4 limpers, you check your option. Flop comes:

3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif

You bet, three limpers call and the button raises. You flat call and the limpers all come along for the ride. The turn is:

5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

You bet.

Now do you understand why this can be a profitable play?
tripdad
03-21-2004, 04:46 PM
yes, but what you describe is slow playing the stone cold nuts, not leading out with a bet on the turn UNIMPROVED.

cheers!
spamuell
03-21-2004, 05:23 PM
Technically, you haven't improved between the flop and the turn.

Anyway, how about when you end up playing a hand like 43o from the blinds, bet your flopped OESD, get raised call making it heads-up to the turn which brings a scare card and you bet thinking there is a good chance your opponent will fold right there and you have outs to improve if he doesn't (you semi-bluff).

How about an example like that? You're unimproved there.
Clarkmeister
03-22-2004, 02:12 AM
This is fine, but I'd usually take a slightly different line and 4-bet preflop then lead the turn.

Excellent initial flop raise of the SB with the hopes of both camoflaguing your hand and knocking out a better king.
BigEndian
03-22-2004, 09:38 AM
I raised because I know the SB is capable of laying down a weak pair and I want to make it 2-bets to go for the PF raisor to think twice about calling with just overcards.

In short, I could win it right there.

When I'm three-bet, I put my guy on either an overpair or the A-diamonds, or both. Q diamonds is possible too, until is rivered of course.

I bet the turn to see if he had an overpair for certain. If he raises the turn, I check-fold the river on a miss. Since he only called, I might get him to fold if an A or K doesn't come on the river by leading again.

- Jim
BigEndian
03-22-2004, 09:41 AM
Thanks Clark, I'll give that a try.

- Jim
BigEndian
03-22-2004, 04:43 PM
For those who like to see the results:

UTG had QQ.

- Jim
tripdad
03-22-2004, 06:24 PM
if you think he will fold to one turn bet, why not cap the flop?

cheers!
lil'
03-22-2004, 06:32 PM
In this particular hand and at this limit, I fold PF. I just don't need the aggravation.
BigEndian
03-22-2004, 06:41 PM
Can't argue with that! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

- Jim
spamuell
03-22-2004, 07:04 PM
if you think he will fold to one turn bet, why not cap the flop?

Because (quote from my post that you replied to):

[ QUOTE ]
making it heads-up to the turn which brings a scare card

[/ QUOTE ]