2+2 SNG Game Survey

[DrPhysic]

2+2 SNG Survey

This is an open letter and survey to all SNG players over the past 10 weeks, and those who would like to play. We have basically not asked the players for input on the game since the first week of January, so it is probably time. We have had a gradual dropoff in participation over recent weeks as is not unexpected. Any new enterprise generates lots of enthusiasm initially. We would like to see the game return to it’s original enthusiasm. We have had input on PM from Tim Perkin, Stoneii, VinnyTheFish, AleoMagus, simon, and myself, to formulate this post and AleoMagus’ post on the new leaderboard.

Here is some of the input:
t_perkin:
Looks fine to me.
Personally I think the way to increase the value of these is to do more analysis on the games, certainly over an extended period of time. Doing some hardcore analysis on how the winners are winning and how the losers are losing is going to make the game a bit more value added. At the moment the only reason to play is social, there is not really any analysis of hands going on. Remember to post it in the Zoo and MTT forums as well as 1TT - you will get some good feedback from the Zoo I expect, and MTT can put up with one last post about these SnGs surely.
Stoneii
Positive feedback thus far. Will post response later. Could not find him today.
AleoMagus:
Ok, Tim has looked at the new system and had some good suggestions for what to do if we start getting lots of players on a 2nd table. I'm going to make a post today describing the system and getting this off the ground
VinnyTheFish:
I do agree with all the questions. The only advice that we will get, that is not possible, is to create a password tourn. (and Vinny is right, at this time it is not possible.)
simon:
I think one of the major factors to consider when trying to explain the dropoff in numbers is that private tournaments are rife at the moment on 2+2. KotZ, HULA, HUSH, BoSS, Zoo vs SS vs Toons etc. It's difficult to be involved with everything, so that may be a potential reason. I don't think there is any way round this, but the SNGs are definitely worth persevering with.
As far the site these events are played at is concerned, Poker Stars seems like the best option right now. I know they don’t want to host these games as a private tournament, this may not be such a bad thing. Whilst we get some non 2+2ers in these SNGs, that is not so bad because they add to the games and some even start posting as a result - this is great to keep the 2+2 paymasters happy. These are my feelings on the subject, thanks for asking my opinion. Feel free to post any of these ideas on the boards if you feel they are relevant.
Doc:
The one change I am going to make for now is scheduling. We have a Wednesday conflict with WPT. Some of you are watching, some are fishing, but either way we are losing players on Wednesday nights. Therefore, starting next week the schedule will be:

Thursday 9:30PM EST with the exception of:
Tuesday 9:30PM EST on any week that there is a KotZ game.

As of this week we will have a new scoring system which has been developed over several days, a drink or two, some yelling, and eventually a lot of accord that it is fair, is in the interest of the games, and fairly represents everybody except ByronKincaid, who will just have to win 5 more.

Starting this week, we will also have more help in making the games successful. Tim and Stoneii will be organizing the Euro game. Vinny and I will be organizing the US game, and AleoMagus and Simon will be posting the scoring. I want to thank Billy, Brad, Simon, Tim, and Vinny for their help and enthusiasm in working on rejuvenating the SNG games. We all want your help too!

We believe there is a community of poker players at 2+2 who enjoy playing together on an regular basis at a reasonable buy-in, in a fundamentally social setting. (Or as social as a bunch of competitive poker players get!) We would like to see that continue, but to do so it needs to be in a format that is in the best interests of the entire group, therefore, we want your ideas and answers.

Therefore I am going to ask some questions to which we would appreciate answers so we know how to provide you the best game. Responses on 1 Table Tournament Forum, Please.

1. What do we need to do to improve participation in the games? Including both the Tuesday “Euro” games in the afternoon US time and evening Euro time and the games in the evening US time.
2. How many missed last night’s game, or the week before in favor of the WPT on television? Is the schedule change above better? Do you have other ideas?
3. Was the Saturday $13+1 satellite to the Sunday $215 a good idea? Should we do it again? How often? 200+15 only? Or 500+30 also?
4. Would a time that is more conducive to both the European group and the US group be a better idea? Suggestions?
5. We will have a Leaderboard starting this week. It has had input from a number of people and we think it is a good system. Player input is welcomed.
6. Do the ideas, additions, and changes in this post help?

Anyone is welcome to respond to this survey. We would especially like feedback from the “SNG Regulars” who have participated in 3 or more of the previous games:

Alekhine8 (Land O Lakes),
Bluff1 (Salem),
Bozeman (Bozeman)
ByronKincaid (Carshalton),
ClaudioReyna (Webster),
ClemsonAce (Lexington),
Colgin (New York)
CrisBrown (Wesley Chapel),
d9090 (Chinese Camp ),
debaser (Buckingham),
HelmetSky (Ramat-Gan),
heyrocker (Chicago),
Hotrod0823 (Brookfield),
jedi333 (Oceanside),
jpg777 (Ballston Spa),
jwp22 (Gaithersburg),
KURN (Cranston),
lorinda (Coventry),
MobyDick (København),
napawino (Brandon),
NotMitch (Somerville),
ocean_461 (Tempe),
ohKanada (Leander),
Poker Jon (Chigwell),
pvl000 (Troy),
Rhonda B (New York City),
Ruddiger (Sammamish),
spike_tt (Swindon),
Stagemusic (Taylorville),
SteelBallsD (kerrville),
superleeds (Fairfield),
TheStrength (Penarth),
thomastem (Marengo),
wayabvpar (Bellevue),
Zorac (Memphis),

Games for 2+2 posters. Not sponsored by Two Plus Two Publishing.

Doc,
Vinny,
Tim,
Stoneii,
AleoMagus, &
-simon-

[ThaSaltCracka]

I am going to try to play in the weekly "US" game, now that I am done with school I should be able to make them all.
I think the time for the U.S. game is perfect, 6:30 pst gives us plenty of time to get home from work and play, and I hope it works for those on the eastcoast as well.

I don't have a problem with it being on wednesday, if that is when the "US" game is one, I watch TV while I play so it doesn't bother me.

As for the satelite game, it could be one of those things that may not be able to be a regular event. That could be one commitment to many, for myself, I can't commit to that every week, but I wouldn't mind playing in one every now and then.

I think the leaderboard is an awesome idea, I really think that will get people to play the SnG's more frequently. IMO, it will have a great impact on the consistency of the participants.

Props to those of you on here that are working really hard on making this a consistent game, I think only positives can come from a regular SnG game, so I am all for it.

[Stoneii]

I PM'ed Doc this am regarding the SnG discussion as follows:

[ QUOTE ]
Humble apologies, was playing a game last night and fully intended to post afterwards but step-daughter has been unwell and needed some fussing.

Anyways, I wasn't going to add anything surprising to your full post. I play the SnG games for the fun and to help tighten up my game. That's incentive enough in my book to keep playing, it's great to rub shoulders with those that have an equal passion for the game and greater ability.

Answering your questions one at a time:

1)I think that's one all the players should answer, my reason is as stated above, I learn and it only costs me $11 (fabulous value)
2)We will only get this broadcast in the UK probably in 2005 /images/graemlins/frown.gif
3)Yes I still like this, even once/twice a month. Idea of posting full report from winner again adds to learning (and for just $14 every fortnight/month).
4)That's a toughie for all of us who have to earn a living in the workplace. Current time for Euro game suits me but I'm aware that's not the case for everyone. Again you're probably back at the weekend to get a time to suit all.
5)Think you guys have ironed this out, I've no problems with any idea that reaches everyone, and yes a rolling 10 weeks leaderboard sounds good (shows who's running hottest of late - BYRON!!)
6)Weekly tournie is good, it's not a huge investment in time or money. I quite like the fact that others may sneak in, if we get to a stage where we have nearer 50 participants then that to me would be the time to seek a private tournie.

Sorry for delay

Regards

Billy (stoneii)

[/ QUOTE ]

[jedi]

I have been unable to make the last 2 or 3 SnGs due to reasons other than scheduling (internet being down, working overtime, etc.) but I do support the move to Thursdays for the reasons already mentioned.

The leaderboard is a good idea. Although I still think this is a social thing, knowing where everyone stands is a good indicator of skill and improvement. I think the improvement factor is a big deal for these forums. Bragging rights are good as well, and since the leaderboard doesn't carry any real prize with it, there's no reason for anyone to get uptight about it.

I still enjoy the game and the funny chat lines that go along with it, so I hope we can get the ball rolling again.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I really enjoy these games as its a cheap way to play against some really good players and I view any kind of result as a significant achievement.

I'd like to play in more than I do but the Europe game is often right when I'm eating (would prefer a later start) and the US game is just too late on a Tuesday (the switch to Thursday might help with the 2.30am start as I only have to survive work until 1pm on the Friday).

I'm as guilty as anyone about posting hands. My suggestions would be that a separate hand discussion thread is started with every game to make this 'requirement' more visible and that each player should be 'encouraged' to pick one hand from their game and post it for discussion. It might be the hand they go out on, or just a hand that made them think hard.

Maybe we could encourage this by awarding leaderboard points to those who post hands or some sort of small incentive (token prize, tourney buy in, etc) to the player who contributes most over the year in this respect (based on a poll of the regular players, not on number of posts).

Other than that I wouldn't change much at all. These games are great fun but I would like to see more discussion arising than at present. I've learned much already and I'd have tremendous respect for many of the players I've seen. I'd love a bit more of an insight into how they're playing/reading me. I'd be happy to contribute my share to this process and I don't think that one hand each per event is too onerous a requirement. After all, the purpose of these games, I believe, was to stimulate discussion and provide a learning experience to all who participate.

Sheriff

[Bluff1]

I'm just throwing this idea out there to see what you guys think of it. I have been pondering the idea of a show all trny. Where every time some one has a chance they must show their hands and also if asked about their hands afterwards must tell the truth about it. I know the later is kinda of so so but still I think a show all trny would help everyones game a great deal. Maybe would could fit this in once a month because I know some wouldn't want to do it.

[Stoneii]

Bluff

Not necessary in my case as some would argue they already know what I'm playin /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[t_perkin]

I like that idea

[AleoMagus]

This post is mostly a bump

But, while I am doing it, do the players of these sngs want to call our new ongoing leaderboard series anything.

I suppose the 2+2 sng series is sufficient, and the leaders would just be the euro and N.American series leaders.

Are there any other name suggestions? Is naming an ongoing series that will never really culminate in a finale a good idea at all?

I know in the past some humorous names were suggested for individual tourneys. Legs Open, etc...

Any thoughts
Brad S

[AleoMagus]

I think this would be hard to implement because obviously there will be non-2+2 players who won't understand what is going on, and many players will just not want to do it.

I don't think it is a bad idea, but I'd just suggest making notes about any hands of interest and having kind of an 2+2 honour system where afterwards, when asked, you fess up.

I'd always tell the truth afterwards.

Regards
Brad S

[DrPhysic]

I still think the series finale should be the "Toilet Bowl". With 7200 pennies served up to the winner in a ....

Doc?

[DrPhysic]

Whenever I have hands I don't show, I always have sooted aces!

D

[t_perkin]

All of those who wish to could agree to exchange hand histories.

I would be willing to do this every week.

Tim

[DrPhysic]

Definition of purpose please:
If Doc and Bluff1, and Stoneii, and Tim, and maybe Vinny want to have a showall just for fun and to compare notes, fine.

We are, however, already imposing to some extent or other on the $215 set to come down to a cheap level to play with us. Asking William, or Al, or Cris, or Stagemusic, or wayabvpar, etc to also show us how, when, and why they are doing what they are doing to us, might be asking a bit much.

Doc

[ThaSaltCracka]

I don't like showing everyhand. I don't think this is a good idea at all, sorry /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[CrisBrown]

Hi Doc,

[ QUOTE ]
We are, however, already imposing to some extent or other on the $215 set to come down to a cheap level to play with us. Asking William, or Al, or Cris, or Stagemusic, or wayabvpar, etc to also show us how, when, and why they are doing what they are doing to us, might be asking a bit much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been playing SNGs for over a week -- William convinced me to try ring play, and I like it -- but I'll probably go back to the occasional SNG, and I'd definitely play in the 2+2 events simply because I enjoy the social element.

That having been said, though, I don't like the idea of being required to show hands, because it takes away a big part of the game: deception. When someone's been sitting tight for a half-hour, and suddenly gobbles up four or five pots in a row ... are they steals, or a run of hot cards? Trying to pick up the differences is a big part of reading players and hands, and if you're seeing that hand-by-hand, you really don't learn as much (IMO).

I wouldn't mind if, after the tourney, in the results threads here, people asked what I had in various hands. I do get hand histories (for PokerTracker), so you can ask me by hand number, or just describe the situation: blinds, stack sizes, bets, etc. and I can probably figure it out.

Cris

[DrPhysic]

Cris,
Despite my thought that showall is not a good idea, I completely agree with you that more, after the fact, specific hand analysis and discussion would be a very good thing.

Doc /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Stagemusic]

I have to say that I don't mind the idea of sharing hands for the most part and I have to disagree with Cris here although I do understand what she is saying and I have no problem with it.

I think that we at 2+2 are part of a community. The idea of community (yep the word has the same root as communism so just let it go) is to help those that are a part. If a trade of information will help any other member then it is to our benefit to do so.

By the way Doc, thanks for including me in your list. To be grouped with those fine players by my peers is indeed an honor. Even though I have really been playing like crap the last couple of weeks /images/graemlins/smirk.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif I have went back to the basics to find out where I lost some enthusiasm for the SNG's. Cris, I guess we have some things in common. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I also support the Thursday move as I work very early in the day ( 5:00 am CST ) and Friday is the day that I am most likely to be off.

[William]

I'm sorry to hear that game the is moving to thursday. The only days I am in front of my screen most of the night (these things start at 03:30 AM for me) are monday and wednsday. I ocasionally can play an EUROSNG on tuesday if I can get the computer from my kids (they spend the night at my place on tuesdays), byt thursday is going to be very difficult.

The SNG to the 215$ tourney is of no interest to me. Weekends are very difficult to commit to (mainly because of the kids) and I also think that if you are targetting a big tournament, there is no need to make it harder on yourself by playing against other 2+2s.

The leaderboard idea is fine, it will probably help keeping the interest in the SNGs.

I am not a big poster of hands. I do discuss those posted by others ocasionally, as long as it is not a subject we have debated 100 times already.

Showing hands: hmm as much as I like to help, and as far as I am concerned, I do think that it is asking too much. I agree with Cris here (I can't believe I just wrote that /images/graemlins/grin.gif but ok, it's not a game situation, just an opinion) and I don't mind telling what I had if asked by somebody I like (that would be most of you).

I'll try of course to join you whenever I can, but with the change of day, I can't really see that hapenning right away.

Take care,
William

[TylerD]

I like the leaderboard idea, seems like it will spark some more interest in the weekly games.

How about an occasional non-NL Holdem game, PL Omaha or Omaha HL, fixed limit HE? Maybe not for the regular game but perhaps occasionally there could be a 2+2 game at a different time, or a 1 table tourny for the first 9 knocked out of the regular game. Is there any interest in this?

Tyler

[Simon Diamond]

I suppose the 2+2 sng series is sufficient

As the games are not endorsed by twoplustwo, I think it may be a problem to use 2+2 in the title. As this forum is the one-table tournament forum, how about the OTT SNG Series? (even though the events are 2-table jobbies /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

Simon

[Simon Diamond]

or a 1 table tourny for the first 9 knocked out of the regular game. Is there any interest in this?

My suggestion would be to canvass opinion when the final table of the main game is formed. If people are still on the rail and are interested, then a impromptu SNG could be set up couldn't it?

Simon

[CrisBrown]

Hiya Stage,

[ QUOTE ]
Even though I have really been playing like crap the last couple of weeks I have went back to the basics to find out where I lost some enthusiasm for the SNG's. Cris, I guess we have some things in common.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we all go through these times. I know that moving to ring game play has been a boon for me, both financially and emotionally. I made almost $2K last week in $2/4 NL ring play, and that obviously that felt good, especially when I'd just made a big withdrawal to pay my mortgage ... which also felt good! Plus there's less pressure in a ring game; the blinds don't increase, there's no one "winner," you can rebuy, come and go as you please, etc.

So yes, I think if you're feeling burned out on SNGs, moving to ring play -- even temporarily -- can be a good idea.

Cris

[CrisBrown]

Hi William,

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Cris here...

[/ QUOTE ]

***THUD***

(Sound of Cris fainting.)

Cris /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[t_perkin]

Although I don't play anything like as much as you guys I find much the same.

I get stale in the SnGs so I move over to ring for a week or two.
Then I get bored with the lack of any finale in Ring so I move back to SnG for a month.

This is pretty much the iteration I go through every 6 weeks for the last 18months. Seems to work very well for me.

Tim

[pokeraz]

One aspect of the game that attracted me initially was I thought there would be more analysis and discussion of some hands during the week between games. I thought that was the whole point. It was meant to be fun but more importantly a learning experience. So it was worth the $11 for a potential lesson or two. That never really materialized. I don't have a problem with playing with good or decent players, but why do it when you don't have to? I posted a few hands after afterwards and they were largely ignored. That may be more of a reflection on me than anything but why else would I want to play with a bunch of people who study the game? I'd rather sit with the folks who call large pre-flop bets with A5o and pay me off.

None of this means that I personally will not play anymore, in fact I intend to. Other commitments have precluded me from playing but now that the schedule looks like it is changing, I will be more apt to play. But I think the above could go along way in improving participation.

[Bluff1]

Looking at it now I agree that showing every hand is asking a bit much from the better players. Can't blame me for trying though /images/graemlins/grin.gif. I do however like the idea of swapping hand histories and would be willing to do it with any player that wanted to. Also if you didn't want to thats okay as well. So I think we could work this out like this those who want to swap hand histories afterwards can and if some players don't want to that is fine.

[Stagemusic]

Cris,

You hit it with that one. Everyone needs a change of pace occasionally. I just returned from LA where I spent a week and had a ball. I am posting a complete trip report in the News and views section. It will be long but I will break it up into a couple of different parts to help with the length. The trip was great and the change up was wonderful.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

OK my response is that I like the time and the game as it stands pretty well. I have been semi-lazy about entering, but that's not because I aint having fun when I play. I have no problems with the scoring system or formats. not sure what else to say.

al

[William]

Stage,

Nice to have you back fit and full of energy. As I know you though, you will soon be waisting all that energy chasing my lead in the Kotz (or elsewhere) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh well, I guess that's what it is to be famous and having all the fans constantly after you... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Welcome back,
William

[DrPhysic]

So? Get back in the game!

Doc

[AleoMagus]

Simon makes a good point here. If these results are going to be posted on a website, can we call it 'the 2+2 sng series'?

At first I suggested to Simon that a simple disclaimer saying the usual 'Games for 2+2 posters, not sponsored by 2+2 publishing' in fine print was all we needed. This may not be the case. Mason?

I think OTT Sng series is appropriate (strangely), but if we are going to call it something else, we can surely get more creative.

In a way, I like having 2+2 in the title so it's too bad. It's like advertising in my opinion and I'd venture to guess that we have brought at least a couple new posters with these tourneys so far.

Any thoughts?
Brad S

Actually, in looking at a past thread about this, perhaps something like:

"SNG Series for 2+2 posters"

is all we would need to do.

[DrPhysic]

AleoMagus,
You're out of date on this. It was brought up in January. The question was raised regarding all the events (KotZ, SNG...).

Mason's answer was that there was not a problem with the games so long as the wording contained the following:

Games for 2+2 posters. Not sponsored by Two Plus Two Publishing.

Doc
edit:
(I don't know how to make a link like MikeHaven does all the time)
see Mason Malmuth's post on 1/13/04 subject "Re: 2+2 SNG $10+1 NLHE STARS 9:30PM EST THURSDAY 15 JAN 04" where he explains two plus two's policy on these games.

Doc

[ThaSaltCracka]

I agree with Pokeraz, this would be a good way of getting more people involved if more hands are talked about. Maybe suggesting, everyon post one hand? I dunno if I want to go that far(I can't believe I am bashing my own idea /images/graemlins/grin.gif) but you guys see what I mean. I think most of us could probably find one hand out of the tourney to talk about.
Another idea would be a whole forum for the "2+2 SnG" although that may be too much to ask for as well.

[Simon Diamond]

Mike hasn't monopolised linking yet, I am not too shabby at it myself:

Mason's explanation re: 2+2 tourneys (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tourn&Number=478078&Forum= All_Forums&Words=3&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Lim it=250&Old=allposts&Main=477602&Search=true#Post47 8078)

I had not read this before, but I am glad you have brought it to my attention Doc. I shall be adding that disclaimer to the KotZ site for starters and to any others I am currently working on.

The name 2+2 SNG Series should be okay then right?

Simon

[DrPhysic]

That was the way we understood it. and if there had been a problem, i think we would have heard about it in the past two months. basically, as long as we solve our own problems and don't involve the sponsors in any liability or other problems, i think it is considered good advertizing.

Doc

[DrPhysic]

BTW, HOW THE H*** DID YOU MAKE THAT D*** LINK?????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????

[Simon Diamond]

Find the post you want to link to, open it in a new window, highlight and copy the URL.

Then when you are in the posting screen, use the UBB code button marked URL, paste the URL into the window that pops up and then call it whatever you want.

If you still can't get it to work, give me a couple of days and I will do a step by step illustration in Photoshop for you. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Simon

[Stagemusic]

[ QUOTE ]
Stage,

Nice to have you back fit and full of energy. As I know you though, you will soon be waisting all that energy chasing my lead in the Kotz (or elsewhere)

Oh well, I guess that's what it is to be famous and having all the fans constantly after you...

Welcome back,
William


[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh, I haven't played in one SNG for over a week and I think I might have forgotten how. Live play in LA might have ruined me for life /images/graemlins/grin.gif Since I am no longer Vice King or anything the KOTZ chase will just have to be extended by a month or so. It's ok though. I will have from about June to December to watch you from the rear view mirror. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[William]

I will have from about June to December to watch you from the rear view mirror.

That's the spirit! Never give up on the unreacheable dream.

William

PS. you might want to change your mirror though, I think it's broken /images/graemlins/grin.gif

PPS. And don't forget to wash the car. With all the dust collected from the past 3 months, you can't tell which color it originally is anymore /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Stagemusic]

[ QUOTE ]
PPS. And don't forget to wash the car. With all the dust collected from the past 3 months, you can't tell which color it originally is anymore

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, O' Temporary Top of the Heap, washing and polishing a car over here is much more difficult than the little wind em up toy cars you drive over there. Besides, if I spend all that time cleaning I have much less time available to read your terribly insightful posts. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[William]

if I spend all that time cleaning I have much less time available to read your terribly insightful posts.

LOL, admit it, you have figured out my schedule and can't wait for me to get online and start commenting all your posts /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wich I gladly do, the crowd must be kept happy /images/graemlins/grin.gif

PS again: What cars are you talking about? Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, Lamborghini, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, BMW...?

Be specific Vice vice vice vice vice King /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Stagemusic]

[ QUOTE ]
PS again: What cars are you talking about? Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, Lamborghini, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, BMW...?


[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I will give you the Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Rolls, and maybe even Mercedes...But BMW and Audi????

PUUUULLEAAAASE /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[William]

OK, I will give you the Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Rolls, and maybe even Mercedes...But BMW and Audi????

Funny enough, between Mercedes, BMW and Audi, my preference would be 1. Audi, 2. BMW, 3. Mercedes. The rest are (yet) out of my league cars.

[DrPhysic]

The funniest one the Euro bunch have thought up yet is the new $96000 "Luxury Sedan" Volkswagen. I kid you not.

I wonder if it still comes with the windup key stuck in the trunk? That's Das BOOT to our UK friends. Not quite sure in Danish.

Doc

[t_perkin]

hehe - a $ isn´t worth much these days. $96,000 is not much money!

[William]

In Denmark, the smallest of the Mercedes costs 200.000$
/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

Just a reminder that while we have no objections to these kinds of tournaments, that is tournaments held on an Internet poker site which are open to posters on our forums at www.twoplustwo.com (http://www.twoplustwo.com), it needs to be made clear that these are not functions of Two Plus Two Publishing LLC. This is especially true if you use the name Two Plus Two in the title of your tournament.

Put another way, we are not responsible for any problems that may occur, and will not mediate any disputes. Also, we do not endorse positive or negative the site where the tournament may be held.

Have fun and best wishes,

Mason Malmuth
Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC

[Simon Diamond]

Hi Mason,

I will ensure that there is a disclaimer on all the external sites I run for these comps. Thanks for clarification on the issue.

Simon

[DrPhysic]

Thanks Mason,
Anytime the question has come up, we have referred them to your post of 1/13/04 as per my response in this thread to AleoMagus' question. All of our game posts contain the disclaimer "Games for 2+2 posters. Not sponsored by Two Plus Two Publishing."

We hope that the interest in the games also helps 2+2 by generating some new posters and providing some positive advertizing.

Doc

[ohkanada]

I've been out of town for a week or so and will continue to play the evening 2+2 sng. I liked the Wednesday night but Thursday should be fine as well.

As far as showing hands, I rarely will show in a tourney but I likely will discuss any specific hands on the forum.

Sure. Start keeping stats after I have a 1st and a 2nd under my belt!

See you all tomorrow night if I can make it after my sons track meet. I was thinking it was tonight. Oh well.

Ken Poklitar