ATs - UTG - Taj (first post)

[btspider]

I know I misplayed this, I just want to be sure I know how.

3/6 (10 handed) at the Taj
- no reads beyond the table being loose passive.
- more observant at the table perceive me as tight (those sitting next to me)

Preflop: Hero is dealt A /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif UTG.
Hero limps, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop (7 SB): 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks, SB checks, BB checks

Turn (3.5 BB): 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, CO folds, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button calls

River (12.5 BB): 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls

Pot Size: 15.5 BB

On the turn, MP2 says "I have to see it" before cold-calling.
Both MP2 and Button show A5o for turned straights. MHIG.
I planned on C/R'ing the flop to build the pot. Since the 23 were rags,
I thought my leading out would scare everyone but Q's and other flush draws out.
Unfortunately, this was the first time all day that there was no bet on the flop with this many players.
With the 3rd rag (rankwise) hitting on the turn, I felt that leading out would fold the table.

Despite this being my biggest pot won that day, I know I got lucky to have 2 gutshots fill on the turn.
Comments on all streets (and message format) welcome.

[beerbandit]

I would come in for a raise utg with this hand. Seven players are in the hand and the c/r sounds good I know it's not a great flop but it seems that one with a queen would bet I know I would. I would have to bet the turn since it was checked around on the flop. It looks like you would have gotten an extra bet in also.

[Mike Gallo]

Spider,

I would have bet the flop.

I like your turn check three bet /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I like the bet on the river even with a paired board.

Welcome aboard.

[AviD]

Definitely bet the flop, add to the deception level as you are early to act. They won't (less observant, non-thinking opponents) figure you for the flush draw and when you do hit it on the turn and come out betting...you'll likely trap players between you and the made straights...then when it comes back 3-bet and hope they cap.

Definitely good river (value) bet too when the board pairs.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I would come in for a raise utg with this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, ATs is NOT worth an UTG raise.

[surfdoc]

I disagree with your plan to CR the flop. If a bet comes from late position you will kill your own action by forcing all to coldcall 2. I would bet this flop, and if a late position player raises that is fine as you are drawing to the nut flush and everyone else will now call as well. The rest is fine. I don't raise this PF UTG either.

[btspider]

Thanks for the responses. I think my previous tight-weak play led me to overestimate my opponent's ability to pick up on and act on my table image. I'm going through the typical stage of researching and tightening up too much. I'm now in the process of getting more aggressive.

This hand definitely helped me understand how the deception of a C/R only lasts for one betting round while the deception of betting out a draw can last until the showdown.

[asymmetrical]

Twice last week I had this happen in a live game I was playing. I made the nut flush on a paired board: once the board paired on the flop, once on the river. It was different in that both times I had position, so I simply raised, and was then 3-bet. I called the 3-bet both times and was shown a boat both times.

In the long run, is 3-betting in Spider's spot, or raising in my situation a losing proposition, or as everything else is it player/hand dependent?

Thanks for any input.

[CrackerZack]

I'm sure this has been said by everyone here. Holy FPS. Not betting this flop is terrible. Given that, not betting he turn is even worse. At least you got some action. I guarantee at least 1 and probably both of the A5o guys would've called on the flop.

[CrackerZack]

Raising the nut flush on the river on a paired board is rarely a losing move.