ONLINE TOURNAMENT BLIND/STRUCTURE!

[TheNutz]

Does anyone else here think the blinds are insanely overpriced towards the last hour/hour and a half of trny? In other words, you get to the point where you are third in chips in a trny and have 10 BB's !!

Does this REALLY test your SKILL ?

I personally don't feel it does... I feel a true test of skill is a rapid increase up to the ante level.. Another still rapid as normal increase the next half hour. At that point go to 20 minute levels, then 25, then 30 so on...

Think about it, how many times have you been in the final 20, and had someone who had 56,000 chips after posting the big blind... You have 200K and are on the button. just call with mid pkt pr (88,99) ...

Flop is just right as guy on BB (mid/low stacked) raises one bb preflop, you have him up agst the wall right?

NO! This player isn't going to fold their hand, they could have AK, KQ, QJ, AJ, AQ.. you get the point...

They know they are beat, but they RAPIDLY hit the call button. Why? It's not the fact that it is internet play. They realize if they lay down they have enuf for 8 more hands and they are out, this is THEIR best chance.

And how many times have you been knocked out of on-line trny's with sub par hands in this situation.. or not necessarily knocked out, but had your stack cut in 2/3rd's or 1/2 ?

I am yet to play any live tournaments, but I see final table of WPT events and there are 7 mil chips on the table between 6 guys and the blinds/antes seem to be much lower.

Am I just hallucinating this? Or do on-line sites want their tournaments over more quickly so they can cash in and move on to the next.. less bandwidth - less overhead?

I'm really interested in hearing opinions on this, I can't tell you how many times I have made final 30.. But only make final table 1/5 times I make top 40.. And I am always stacked nicely.

No I do NOT misplay my hands... I am not tilting.. it is one hand, and BAM... Your stack is nothing and you are up agst the wall waiting.. You go allin with a reasonable hand and get lucky or bust..

Saving you the story but I'm sure you get the jist of what happened to me (again) tonight..

I just feel like it is less skill and more luck PERIOD... SPECIALLY when you ge to FINAL 20 at an online trny at either party or paradise..

ESPECIALLY paradise, lol...

Those of you who have played, think how quick it goes from 20 to 10 ? I "KNOW" this also happens in real life in the 'blink of an eye' when at final tables... But my god! People see they have QJ suited or KQ off and push in their 250K chip stack and that has them set at 4-6th place with 20 left. What kind of play is this? Agressive, yes.. good play, wanna hear opinions?

If it seems like I'm whining, don't mean to come across that way.. I'm not.. I was beat, end of story! BUT, I do wonder how others feel about this that have experience in both B & M and on-line tournaments.

I'm going to the quad cities this coming week no matter what, I know they have a NL event weekly. I will be playing my first live trny (need to get the sunglasses out haha).

One last question to ponder, you have a NO LIMT PLAYING FIELD OF 1000 players in Vegas... WSOP event .. granted EVERYONE is trying to play their "A+++ game" here, but you get the point.

How long does it take to get to the final table?

Venturing a guess, I would say 20 + hours of play...

Where in the HELL where you EVER find an on-line tournament, regardles of buy-in amount or quality of players (AND I MEAN EVER!) where 1000 players takes 20 hours to bust down to final ten.. hell make it final TWO!

Think the end of this post (as long and drug out as it is) kind of helps put the whole subject into perspective...


If you disagree, flame away... I want to be told I am wrong if I am.. If I am right, I would like to hear others feel the same way.

[crockpot]

i've said it before and i'll say it again: if you want to know who the best poker player is, go sit in a ring game. if you want to know who the best thief is, play a tournament.

serious tournament players know that they are not playing poker at this stage, but they make the best of the situation.

[TheNutz]

CrockPot, my uncle (Matt Delinski) used to be management at OTB up there about 5 or 6 years ago.. Champaign/Urbana. I am about hour/hour and a half away from you... Small world.

Crock Pot, I agree with you to a point.. I would say some of those players in tournaments DESERVE to be there, the question is.. How do you structure it so you have the creme de la crop at your final table? Or even final 40 or 50 ?


"i've said it before and i'll say it again: if you want to know who the best poker player is, go sit in a ring game. if you want to know who the best thief is, play a tournament."

I feel the statement, "The only TURE poker game left is No Limt Texas Holdem" is very true. Although I strongly believe limit holdem requires an immense amount of skill - it is an entirely different game, period. You are tossing apples and oranges agst eachother here.


"
serious tournament players know that they are not playing poker at this stage, but they make the best of the situation.
"

Maybe on-line ....

Do you think That T.J. Cloutier hung on for 3 - 6 extra spots (IF NOT MORE) by watching his competition getting knocked out in MULTIPLE WSOP 'championship matches' thinking hmmmmm... "I'll make the best out of this situation" ?

No, he had the apporpriate amount of chips, and he was at a point where he could go 2 rounds or 3 rounds and steal once every two or three rounds if he needed to to keep in the game at the same level he was at, slowly watching his apponents drop. This is strategy!

Can you do that on-line? HELL NO! Not In my opinion anyways!

Can you imagine some of the calls you see at party poker's weekly sunday NL 200 + 15 event FINAL TABLE being made at a WSOP final TABLE?

No WAY! lol!!!

Question is...

Is it because of the blind/ante structure... or the fact u can emain anonymous?

[crockpot]

first off, if you only steal once every two or three rounds, you are going to lose your chips steadily in a tournament regardless of how big the blinds and antes are. this strategy is only correct if the opponents are playing recklessly and you want them to go broke before you do.

also remember that online tournaments are not designed to be spread out over five days. would you really want the tournament structure to be slowed down if it meant that the massive party tourneys would force you to stay at your computer for 10+ hours? even if you would, party sure as hell wouldn't, because people would stop entering.

[Simon Diamond]

also remember that online tournaments are not designed to be spread out over five days. would you really want the tournament structure to be slowed down if it meant that the massive party tourneys would force you to stay at your computer for 10+ hours? even if you would, party sure as hell wouldn't, because people would stop entering.

This is what it comes down to at the end of the day, tournaments have to end eventually and the only way of speeding them along is to have the structures they do at present.

Simon

[TheNutz]

I agree on that, but if first prize is 320 times my buyin and add-on amounts combined - I would like things to slow down a bit at the end. A payoff that size would be worth a 6 hour trny to me! Currently it runs 4:15 - 4:45... Slowing down the blind raising a tad would effectively make the game a little bit longer and the more skillfull players would be at final tables more often than lucky ones!

Also, I was talking purely about letting competition knock eachouther out... The last paradise final table I was at where I go 4th, I sat with 230K chips, played no hands.. within 9 - 12 hands we were down to FOUR players with a couple HUGE stacked people who made insane calls (like calling all-in with 2 all-ins behind them and all they had was AQ suited... the guy had higher then average stack also!)

The play is insane, and on-line towards the end.. Last 50 or so - I play minimal hands and steal only with hands I would normally call a raise if I was UTG with.

I let everyone beat the chit out of eachother... Because the way they play is like the beginning of a $2.00 rebuy! These people are just happy they are "In the money" and are hoping for a miracle t win first, PURE GAMBLING!

Giving it a couple more goes tonight to see how it goes, and I am really looking forward to Tuesday playing live (if I can get out of the house - moving and all I might have to wait a couple more weeks unfortunately)