Jon34
03-18-2004, 02:11 AM
WARNING: This is a good chunk of my poker background, which leads up to my latest realization. Might be a good read for new players, I might get a pat on the back from the real players, and from what I've read recently I might be in the same boat as Gomez. Pardon the rambles /images/graemlins/wink.gif
I started playing poker last summer. Before that I never realized how complex a game it was, but as soon as I discovered how incredible it really was, I was hooked. Between a natural affinity for logical and mathmatical reasoning and experience with games that involve similar skills (magic the gathering, bridge), I thought I had a real knack for the game (and still think so).
I started playing online freerolls and latenight heads up against my brother. It took me a couple months to come around to agreeing with many general theory principals, as I didn't really believe it until I experienced it enough. For example, I didn't understand why you should play tight preflop when most any two cards could flop a monster. Eventually I realized the reasons, and poker just kept growing on me. I have been trying to take the fast track to poker success, studying many books, reading these forums, and playing way too much altogether /images/graemlins/smile.gif
When I got back to college in the fall, I started playing no limit home games (typically .25/.50 blinds, $20 buyin). I have done quite well in them, winning much more than losing. One thing to note, however, is that the play in those games isn't really "normal". although there are exceptions, for the most part they play fairly tight and aggressive preflop. The 'standard' raise preflop is $2-$2.50, and bigger raises than that usually just take down the blinds, unless someone has something big. Postflop, however, the bets usually stay about the same. Sometimes they increase a little bit, to $3 or $4 or $5, and there is the occasional allin, etc..., but a typical hand is often "1 or 2 limps, A raises to $2.50 preflop, B & C call, rest fold. A bets $2 on flop, B calls, C folds. A bets $2 on turn, B calls or raises $2. A checks river, B checks or bets $3, A calls, showdown". A pot sized bet on the flop is a rarity, unless there was no raise preflop and the pot on the flop happened to be in the ballpark of $2.
Recently, about 6 or 8 weeks ago, I started playing online as well. I played a mix of 10+ 1 S&G's, shorthanded limit (.50/1 and 1/2), and .25/.50 No limit on stars and paradise. I was doing quite well at shorthanded limit(and in total), but getting quite frustrated at NL. I played my same solid game from the home games. Others would play in similar fashion in the sense that there were never any pot sized bets (mostly $2 or so, depended on the person), but they were also much worse in general in other ways, like calling down with 2nd, 3rd, or an underpair, calling w/ gutshots, etc... So my typical NL session involved my building a stack slowly and steadily, taking a fish's whole stack on occasion, just playing good poker against inferior competition. But then invariably someone would either do something stupid, and take a big pot off my in a bad beat, or sometimes I would just get beat by better hands. This seemed especially rough when I had AA. I have had so much trouble folding it, when people value TPTK like gold, but end up losing tons of money with it against randon 2 pair, trips, etc...
So about a week or so ago I began rethinking my play, especially with aces. It seemed to me that if I could get others to commit some money into the pot I could just push in preflop, and take down a okay sized pot, and if they called I was always a big favorite, +EV, etc...I expanded this a bit more, and started betting really hard if the flop was coordinated at all, which almost always takes it down, but people who draw have to pay dearly. The next step was to simply start raising more preflop. While this often knocked people out, when they did call they were making a much bigger mistake. Furthmore, it set up a pot bet on the flop which almost always takes it down. It took me a while to accept this strategy, as it can be depressing to raise with a very strong hand UTG and get zero callers. I'm still tinkering with a lot of the details and still getting used to when to bet the pot, less or more, and when to abandon top pair when you meet resistance. But the results still look encouraging. I don't have that many hours/hands to constitute a valid sample size, but my impression is that this style/strategy gets drawn out on much less, decreases variance, and might win slower but still wins and with less risk. This has been a very drastic change in the way I play, but should be a big improvement and pay off significantly once I get used to it. Betting out all weak hands and draws looks to be much better than closing your eyes, betting a small fraction of the pot, and hoping the other guys don't hit. Thanks for listening,
Jon34
I started playing poker last summer. Before that I never realized how complex a game it was, but as soon as I discovered how incredible it really was, I was hooked. Between a natural affinity for logical and mathmatical reasoning and experience with games that involve similar skills (magic the gathering, bridge), I thought I had a real knack for the game (and still think so).
I started playing online freerolls and latenight heads up against my brother. It took me a couple months to come around to agreeing with many general theory principals, as I didn't really believe it until I experienced it enough. For example, I didn't understand why you should play tight preflop when most any two cards could flop a monster. Eventually I realized the reasons, and poker just kept growing on me. I have been trying to take the fast track to poker success, studying many books, reading these forums, and playing way too much altogether /images/graemlins/smile.gif
When I got back to college in the fall, I started playing no limit home games (typically .25/.50 blinds, $20 buyin). I have done quite well in them, winning much more than losing. One thing to note, however, is that the play in those games isn't really "normal". although there are exceptions, for the most part they play fairly tight and aggressive preflop. The 'standard' raise preflop is $2-$2.50, and bigger raises than that usually just take down the blinds, unless someone has something big. Postflop, however, the bets usually stay about the same. Sometimes they increase a little bit, to $3 or $4 or $5, and there is the occasional allin, etc..., but a typical hand is often "1 or 2 limps, A raises to $2.50 preflop, B & C call, rest fold. A bets $2 on flop, B calls, C folds. A bets $2 on turn, B calls or raises $2. A checks river, B checks or bets $3, A calls, showdown". A pot sized bet on the flop is a rarity, unless there was no raise preflop and the pot on the flop happened to be in the ballpark of $2.
Recently, about 6 or 8 weeks ago, I started playing online as well. I played a mix of 10+ 1 S&G's, shorthanded limit (.50/1 and 1/2), and .25/.50 No limit on stars and paradise. I was doing quite well at shorthanded limit(and in total), but getting quite frustrated at NL. I played my same solid game from the home games. Others would play in similar fashion in the sense that there were never any pot sized bets (mostly $2 or so, depended on the person), but they were also much worse in general in other ways, like calling down with 2nd, 3rd, or an underpair, calling w/ gutshots, etc... So my typical NL session involved my building a stack slowly and steadily, taking a fish's whole stack on occasion, just playing good poker against inferior competition. But then invariably someone would either do something stupid, and take a big pot off my in a bad beat, or sometimes I would just get beat by better hands. This seemed especially rough when I had AA. I have had so much trouble folding it, when people value TPTK like gold, but end up losing tons of money with it against randon 2 pair, trips, etc...
So about a week or so ago I began rethinking my play, especially with aces. It seemed to me that if I could get others to commit some money into the pot I could just push in preflop, and take down a okay sized pot, and if they called I was always a big favorite, +EV, etc...I expanded this a bit more, and started betting really hard if the flop was coordinated at all, which almost always takes it down, but people who draw have to pay dearly. The next step was to simply start raising more preflop. While this often knocked people out, when they did call they were making a much bigger mistake. Furthmore, it set up a pot bet on the flop which almost always takes it down. It took me a while to accept this strategy, as it can be depressing to raise with a very strong hand UTG and get zero callers. I'm still tinkering with a lot of the details and still getting used to when to bet the pot, less or more, and when to abandon top pair when you meet resistance. But the results still look encouraging. I don't have that many hours/hands to constitute a valid sample size, but my impression is that this style/strategy gets drawn out on much less, decreases variance, and might win slower but still wins and with less risk. This has been a very drastic change in the way I play, but should be a big improvement and pay off significantly once I get used to it. Betting out all weak hands and draws looks to be much better than closing your eyes, betting a small fraction of the pot, and hoping the other guys don't hit. Thanks for listening,
Jon34