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View Full Version : bad call on river?

schwza
03-18-2004, 02:02 AM
I had seen the bad guy slowplay a big hand earlier and I knew he was fairly loose pre-flop. I'm concerned I don't fold enough on the river - I'd like to get people's opinions on this hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls.

River: (5.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 7.50 BB, between MP2 and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by MP2 (7.50 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
MP2 shows 8s 7h (full house, eights full of fives).
Hero shows 9s 9c (two pair, nines and eights).
Outcome: MP2 wins 7.50 BB. </font>
sthief09
03-18-2004, 02:10 AM
No, I actually like this call. Judging from you title, you lost the pot, but a lot of aggressive players will bet into you in the river hoping that you're playing the board.

Raise pre-flop.
umdpoker
03-18-2004, 04:09 AM
not only did you play fine, but your opponent might have brain damage. he didn't raise you on turn, then he bets the river. the only reason to not bet the turn is to checkraise an aggressive opponent on river. even then, i don't like it. what a tard. you played well though imo.
Guido
03-18-2004, 05:15 AM
You can see the results in white by selecting the text... I agree with you raise PF rest was fine.

Guido
The Dude
03-18-2004, 05:32 AM
Easy raise preflop.

Against most opponents, this is an easy call. The A coming on the river is a great bluff card (right up there with another 8 or 5), and there are plenty of opportunists who will bet out playing the board here.

There are opponents I've played against that I would have folded to here, but it takes a good read to do that here.

BTW, if he checks to you on the river, just check it through, because you really don't like being check-raised on that board.
spamuell
03-18-2004, 07:38 AM
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BTW, if he checks to you on the river, just check it through, because you really don't like being check-raised on that board.

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I disagree with this (not that you don't like being check-raised, obviously that is true, I disagree that you should check.)

With a board with 2 pair and an ace, he's going to call with any busted draw or other non-pair or lower pocket pair hand, in hope of a split. So bet here.
schwza
03-19-2004, 12:19 PM
what's the rationale for raising pre-flop here? i figured it was unlikely i'd win without hitting my set, and if i hit i want more people in. if i do flop an overpair, it's more likely someone will bet into me so i can raise, and the pot's smaller so that overcards will be more wrong to call.

if one overcard comes with two opponents on the flop (assuming i actually drive out the blinds) it's unlikely i'm going to be able to win the pot in a 2/4 party game without showing down so if overcards hit on the turn or river i'll be in a lot of trouble.
bdk3clash
03-19-2004, 05:32 PM
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what's the rationale for raising pre-flop here?

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The rationale for raising here preflop is that in the long run you'll get more than your fair share of every bet that goes into the pot preflop.

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i figured it was unlikely i'd win without hitting my set, and if i hit i want more people in.

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The SB and BB might drop when they otherwise would have called/checked, but none of the original PF limpers will fold if you raise here.

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if i do flop an overpair, it's more likely someone will bet into me so i can raise, and the pot's smaller so that overcards will be more wrong to call.

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They'll (incorrectly) call whether the pot is big or small, so I'd rather go for a big(ger) pot. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Though 99 may be a borderline example, in general I agree that you gain some equity by forcing your opponents to make mistakes if you know they'll call with an overcard or overcard(s) in small pots.

Having said that, I don't think the equity you gain by inducing this kind of mistake is enough to compensate for all the bets you miss preflop.